thoughts on hand?

wheel son · #1 02-23-2007, 04:44 PM

31 left out of 2,000 in 5th place

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t33931)
Hero (t149553)
CO (t53928)
Button (t83958)
SB (t31985)
BB (t30776)
UTG (t156499)
UTG+1 (t50989)
MP1 (t140562)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t18000, 3 folds, Hero raises to t40000, CO raises to t53628, 3 folds, UTG calls t35628, Hero calls t13628.

Flop: (t162684) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t39000, UTG raises to t102000, Hero calls t56625 (All-In).

Turn: (t360309) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t360309) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t360309

Results in white below: 
UTG has Jh Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero has Ad Kc (two pair, aces and kings).
CO has Ac Kh (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins t360309. 

no real read on villian, i was debating folding the AK preflop just not to get involved with another big stack and unknown player raise from utg seemed strong.. also i think i reraised too little. I'm not actually sure what to think but your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Shes92 · #2 02-23-2007, 05:10 PM

Did you consider checking it down as there was a player allin and you only had top pair? Maybe thats why UTG was checking till you bet the flop!

Shes92 · #3 02-23-2007, 05:12 PM

BTW you need a better title or you may not get may responses

holdemft · #4 02-23-2007, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did you consider checking it down as there was a player allin and you only had top pair? Maybe thats why UTG was checking till you bet the flop!

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't always have to Co-Op when someone is already A/I. You check it down if you don't have a hand, or you have a marginal hand. If you've flopped a big hand, like in UTGs case, He was checking with the sole intent of check raising. Had Hero not lead out, UTG surely would have on the turn. Co-Op doesn't apply here.

Shes92 · #5 02-23-2007, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you consider checking it down as there was a player allin and you only had top pair? Maybe thats why UTG was checking till you bet the flop!

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't always have to Co-Op when someone is already A/I. You check it down if you don't have a hand, or you have a marginal hand. If you've flopped a big hand, like in UTGs case, He was checking with the sole intent of check raising. Had Hero not lead out, UTG surely would have on the turn. Co-Op doesn't apply here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think coop play still applys here but theres two sides to every argument. I realise that the villain may have been trying to CR BUT he only has one person to act after him and that person may be going to automatically check for coop reasons. As it is more likely than normal that the hero is going to check then I think an intentional CR from the villain is quite unlikely. Add that to the coordinated board and the big pot which he didnt try to protect and I think that >80% of the time the villain is playing this cooperatively until hero bets. When hero does bet, villains reraise looks very strong and puts hero in a tough position where I think he has to call

holdemft · #6 02-23-2007, 05:16 PM

I wouldn't fold AK PF here, you could have moved A/I PF though I don't think it would have made any difference, people are notoriously hard to push off a high pair online. Live Poker this would work more often as you will get more respect for holding AA-QQ. Having said that, even though it may not have worked, I would have still tried to isolate the CO by moving A/I. Maybe you could have moved UTG off his hand, but you're never going to by just calling CO's A/I. After the flop, its tough to get away from Top/Top, but I think UTG was telling you that you're beat by his C/R.

wheel son · #7 02-23-2007, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't fold AK PF here, you could have moved A/I PF though I don't think it would have made any difference, people are notoriously hard to push off a high pair online. Live Poker this would work more often as you will get more respect for holding AA-QQ. Having said that, even though it may not have worked, I would have still tried to isolate the CO by moving A/I. Maybe you could have moved UTG off his hand, but you're never going to by just calling CO's A/I. After the flop, its tough to get away from Top/Top, but I think UTG was telling you that you're beat by his C/R.

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i was unable to move all in after CO moved all in because his raise was not a full bet. If it was possible i definatley would have. I just feel that i messed something up preflop..

starstx · #8 02-23-2007, 06:20 PM

I would love to hear what each player had here. Don't you think UTG would of re-raised All-In if holding AA or KK and pushed you out? I don't think you messed anything up. I would of raised more like 50-55K but I don't think it would of made a difference. CO would of still gone all-in and it looks like UTG still would of called. Why do I have some weird feeling that UTG has AK as well or played JJ and hit trips.

hamnegger · #9 02-24-2007, 12:23 AM

i flat call utg raise w ace king in this spot. id rather play small ball.

DiscipleAA · #10 02-24-2007, 12:36 AM

PreFlop I would call UTG raise of 18000 as you have a big hand here but it is still a hand that will not win without improving against villians range, so since you are basically drawing and UTG is the only player who can stack you it is much better to just smooth call here, when CO pushes all in and UTG calls I think just folding this is the best course of action even though you may not like it I think it is the best +EV play

However as played I think there is no way you cant go broke here post flop because there is too many holdings (draws) that you have beatin here, I like the earlier comment that villian probably intented to check it down fearing going bust to a hit flush himself and there being no side pot you could have gotten away from the hand with like 60k still intact by checking it down