So... I'm not reraising PF anymore. Is that wrong?

[CardSharpCook]

Ok, I'm talking about deepstack poker. 40bb+. Is this really bad? 3 examples from a recent $1000 live tourney I just played.

blinds 25/25
4 limps, button makes it 150. I call in the SB with QQ.

Blinds 75/150
HJ opens to 450. I call with AJo in the CO.

Blinds 100/200
CO opens to 600. I call with AA on the button.

My reasoning varies slightly with each hand, but essentially, it is the same: I WANT some sort of action with all of these hands and adding 4.5BB to my 50BB stack (with the risk of having to fold to a shove and losing 8BB) is not incentive enough to be 3betting.... I mean re-raising. Thoughts?

[Bond18]

I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

[CardSharpCook]

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I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

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Actually, I thought this was the clearest smooth call. We start with 2500 chips and this is level one. So there is say 250 chips in the pot or a 10% increase in my chip stack. HOWEVER!!!! Calling and playing for set value may double me up. ALSO!!!! I'm definately turning QQ into 27o here by raising. I'm only getting action from AA/KK/AK really, and AK folds if it misses the flop. Thusly, just as good to raise 27o like this.

[registrar]

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I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

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Actually, I thought this was the clearest smooth call. We start with 2500 chips and this is level one. So there is say 250 chips in the pot or a 10% increase in my chip stack. HOWEVER!!!! Calling and playing for set value may double me up. ALSO!!!! I'm definately turning QQ into 27o here by raising. I'm only getting action from AA/KK/AK really, and AK folds if it misses the flop. Thusly, just as good to raise 27o like this.

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I'm so easy to persuade.

[omaha]

OOps, sorry, i didnt read the bit about you being deep stacked. I havent played much of that at all, so you may wish to ignore/ downgrade my sarcastic comments

[Landlord79]

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I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I thought this was the clearest smooth call. We start with 2500 chips and this is level one. So there is say 250 chips in the pot or a 10% increase in my chip stack. HOWEVER!!!! Calling and playing for set value may double me up. ALSO!!!! I'm definately turning QQ into 27o here by raising. I'm only getting action from AA/KK/AK really, and AK folds if it misses the flop. Thusly, just as good to raise 27o like this.

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I'm so easy to persuade.

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Yes, my logic is dung... Nice points.

[CardSharpCook]

I think Noah has made some good points here. Mainly, that if I'm playing aggressively and reraising a lot, I'm throwing away a lot of value by not reraising with these hands. In my next live event, I may try to bring back some of that PF aggressiveness.

All, please remember that I said 40plusBB. In the first hand, I had about 140 BB, table average 105. Second hand, like 65 BB, table avg 60. Third hand 45bb, table avg 45. The question goes not to these specific hands so much as to the general practice when deepstacked at 40+ BB. I understand that there are variations in 40/60/100/200, but we can still discuss a general concept.

As for the specific hands, its probably of note that the second two hands were against a guy who was obsessing over a hand that I bluffed him off of an hour or so earlier. I felt there was an increased likelyhood of him making profitable mistakes also of him playing in a way that makes his hand quite readable.

For those saying that I'm turning QQ into 22, that's a good point, but not entirely accurate. QQ is going to be top set, 22 bottom set. QQ stacks 22 on a 27Q flop. Also, QQ has much better showdown value in an actionless pot. I think acting 1st is the second best location I could be. If there is a bet and a raise on a 9 high flop, tossing QQ is easy. If there is a bet, 3 folds, and a call, I can start thinking QQ might be good as just an overpair and think about the hand that way. Yes, by just calling I'm primarily playing for set value, but it does have more value than just making sets. It also makes the best sets.

Also, I think those advocating just calling AJ and def. raising AA have it backwards. I think you should be more inclined to raise the weaker hand when there is a high probability that a raise will negate seeing any flop. Also, you should be just as happy to see a 4bet when holding AJ as when holding AA. Sure, it means you gotta fold, but at least you know that you were drawing to only 3 outs and you couldn't even be sure which 3 were your outs.

[NoahSD]

You left out some pretty critical information, like your position, reads, and specific stack size (40+ BB is a really big range, and the 3-bet dynamic is way different at 40, 60, 100, 150, 200 BBs, etc.).

But, it doesn't really matter much. These are all pretty much always a 3-bet. You should be 3-betting in these spots with a wide enough range that 3-betting the QQ and AA is worth a ton of value, and 3-betting with AJo there is nice because he folds so often, and when he doesn't he often folds to a c-bet--plus occasionally you hit something showdownable.

[hurricaneace67]

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I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

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Actually, I thought this was the clearest smooth call. We start with 2500 chips and this is level one. So there is say 250 chips in the pot or a 10% increase in my chip stack. HOWEVER!!!! Calling and playing for set value may double me up. ALSO!!!! I'm definately turning QQ into 27o here by raising. I'm only getting action from AA/KK/AK really, and AK folds if it misses the flop. Thusly, just as good to raise 27o like this.

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I disagree that you are turning your hand into 27o. You are giving people too much credit. You will definitely get action sometimes from less than AA/KK/AK. But what you are really doing is turning your hand into 22, and that is just a waste.

On the 2nd hand, I would only flat call if HJ is very nitty. Otherwise I am definitely reraising.

I generally only flat call a raise with AA when the stacks are between 10 and 25 bb. Deepstacked this is a must reraise with AA.

[b-komplex]

Really the important thing here is not to have such a narrow range for reraising *and* cold-calling as to allow your opponents to play back optimally ie FTOP. I do a lot of cold-calling deep stacked in donkaments and it works well for me. But my range is way wider than the Gap Theory would suggest. In cash games or other situations where post-flop play is way different I am more TAG but my 3-bet range is a lot wider.