100NL: TPTK in 3-way rr'ed pot -- bet the flop?

[MotorBoatingSOB]

A friend of mine solicited some advice from me on a hand from last night. I don't really like reraising preflop, but hes new to FR from 6-max and doesn't know any better [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


Full Tilt Poker
$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
9 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
UTG: $123.50
UTG+1: $201.65
MP1: $87.50
MP2: $62.45
MP3: $92.30
CO: $51.50
Hero (BTN): $107.55
SB: $64.5
BB: $157.5

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1.5, 9 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $3</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $3, MP3 calls $3, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $14</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $11, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $11

<font color="black">Flop:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($46.5, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] ($46.5, 3 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">MP3 bets $30</font>, Hero calls $30, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises all in to $187.65</font>, MP3 folds, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $157.65 returned to UTG+1

<font color="black">River:</font> Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [] ($136.5, 1 players)
No action


Is anybody betting this flop? I tend to think betting the flop is about the same as betting the turn in terms of which hands give us action (ie, only hands that have us destroyed), plus it keeps everyone from hitting a 2-3 outer if we are way ahead.

Is anybody checking this flop? We are likely to be way ahead or way behind here, unless someone has a hand like 89 or 58 (89 is probably more likely in this spot). This is kind of like pot control, which probably doesn't matter in this hand since 2 streets of betting will pretty easily get the money in if that's what we/someone else wants (And I'm not saying we want this).

Any thoughts on this?

[Genesis]

I'm gonna take a stab at this one so someone can tell me if I am totally wrong.

Preflop: This is a hand you want to take down the pot early on, so I raise a little extra to ~$15-20 range. I would like everyone to fold.

Flop: Have to continuation bet here. Something around 35-40 range. Probably can fold to a push, otherwise the rest goes in on the turn.

[seventwo]

It's kind of a dry flop, so I bet 30-35 on flop and go from there.

[Thrahl]

I don't mind the preflop raise if we know UTG1 is raising light, but as a general rule I'm not a fan of 3 betting AQ in FR.

Flops don't get much better than this for AQ, no reason not to Cbet here.

[Cry Me A River]

I'm cbetting too. Under representing TPTK type hands can be very dangerous. It leads to villains over-valueing hands we beat and then we're left with tough decisions. I'd rather bet and define the hand.

[Stake Monster]

I don't like the PFR personally. AQo is not that strong of a hand, and with so much action you might be hoping for a long shot. Although you do have position. Still I don't like it.

I definitely bet on the flop there, no reason to give anyone a free card, that 5 on the turn cost him the pot.

[MotorBoatingSOB]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm cbetting too. Under representing TPTK type hands can be very dangerous. It leads to villains over-valueing hands we beat and then we're left with tough decisions. I'd rather bet and define the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then are you more likely to felt this hand on a brick-ish turn (say a 2 that completes the rainbow) if you check the flop? I don't think checking the flop is going to magically make someone overplay KQ/QJ or something to this extent, but I could be wrong.

It might help us get 1 more bet out of a KQ type of hand though.

[MotorBoatingSOB]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind the preflop raise if we know UTG1 is raising light, but as a general rule I'm not a fan of 3 betting AQ in FR.

Flops don't get much better than this for AQ, no reason not to Cbet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea I don't like thre preflop 3bet either. As I said in OP, the Hero (not me) is new to full ring from 6-max and 3-bets pretty light as is custom in those games.

Incidentally he ended up stacking me with KK vs. QQ in a SB vs. CO matchup in a spot where I probably would have folded if he I didn't know he had just come from 6-max.

[2Paul2]

Pf depends on utg+1. If he's an unknown I would prolly just muck/sometimes call if mp2/3 aren't vry good or are vry readable. Tbh I think AQ=atc in this spot as he won't get action from worse. It's a good spot to squeeze though so I don't mind it as long as he knows he's bluffing.

I think post flop is well played.

On the flop your not likely to get action from worse and villains will have at most 2 outs usually/maybe 3 w/AK. 88-JJ will def. give you action on the turn when you check through though.

On the turn there's obv. no point in raising and utg+1 has a set pretty much 100% of the time when he c/r's all in so that looks good to.

Paul

[MotorBoatingSOB]

[ QUOTE ]
Pf depends on utg+1. If he's an unknown I would prolly just muck/sometimes call if mp2/3 aren't vry good or are vry readable. Tbh I think AQ=atc in this spot as he won't get action from worse. It's a good spot to squeeze though so I don't mind it as long as he knows he's bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]

I think post flop is well played.

On the flop your not likely to get action from worse and villains will have at most 2 outs usually/maybe 3 w/AK. 88-JJ will def. give you action on the turn when you check through though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there are two villians here, each probably having between 2 and 8 outs. In a heads up pot checking is not as dangerous but these can add up with more villains.

I don't think checking this flop is going to make someone go nuts with a worse hand, but it might get us one more bet. The problem is that there are two connecting cards on the flop (yes people raise UTG+1 and call a reraise with 89 and 45). We also might not want to have people taking a shot at us later on in the hand because it will put us in a really tough spot.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn there's obv. no point in raising and utg+1 has a set pretty much 100% of the time when he c/r's all in so that looks good to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.