KK -- how to sort out confusing action?

fretelöo · #1 01-24-2007, 08:14 PM

SB is an unknown. BB is 25/13/2 over 200 hands.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

I had no idea what this meant. SB 3-betting didn't yet convince me fully that I was behind. BB call/capping was completely weird. someone trying to trap with 77/55? So I was pretty sure that I was behind BB and planned on folding the turn ui - which is in fact incorrect as even with SB calling, I only get 10:1 here. But anyway...

Turn: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

... and he just calls. Huh? Since I originally wasn't convinced I was behind SB, I called as well. Correct?

River: (13 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

I really didn't like that 6, however after that kind of action, it was kinda hard to put anyone on 89s... So I made a crying call...

Final Pot: 15 BB

On a general note: That turn action somehow didn't make any sense. So what should I do in such a case? Scratch my previous ranges I put them on because they don't add up to their current play?
Go with what I thought on the flop and just assume they don't know how to play the nuts?
Not think anything anymore and just call down?

Aaron W. · #2 01-24-2007, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB call/capping was completely weird. someone trying to trap with 77/55?

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be my first reaction. However, based on the action to follow, it's probably 86. I've seen that play live a few times, when someone caps the flop to freeze everyone up on the turn. It's sort of a free-card cap plus possibly making you fold your hand on the flop. It's a terrible move, though.

[ QUOTE ]
On a general note: That turn action somehow didn't make any sense. So what should I do in such a case? Scratch my previous ranges I put them on because they don't add up to their current play?
Go with what I thought on the flop and just assume they don't know how to play the nuts?
Not think anything anymore and just call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

With a strong hand, I like to call down if it's looking cheap. TPWK gets mucked.

Bigka79 · #3 01-25-2007, 12:47 AM

yeah i think we have to call here on the river. the pot has gotten too big and if we lay it down i think we lost money. just my opinion though im kind of suprised no one has come in yet and said its a fold

Watkins · #4 01-26-2007, 07:01 AM

Aaron W, you said

[ QUOTE ]
However, based on the action to follow, it's probably 86. I've seen that play live a few times, when someone caps the flop to freeze everyone up on the turn. It's a terrible move, though

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspected 86s too, what worries me is that you state this flop play is bad. Hopefully this is because there are only 3 people in. I wouldn't hesitate to make this move against 4 people and with 3 people in it's only a mistake if you're against a set surely? I wouldn't really be making it to freeze people up on the turn but rather to push a small edge.

Is it the combination of a small edge and the possibility of a set that makes this a call down for 86?

fretelöo · #5 01-26-2007, 07:10 AM

Ok. Everyone is right who wanted to call down. Villain showed ... ... 86o as predicted by many.

Good thing is, I now have 10BB to spend on nearly hopeless calldowns again!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

shuinthehouse · #6 01-26-2007, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. Everyone is right who wanted to call down. Villain showed ... ... 86o as predicted by many.

Good thing is, I now have 10BB to spend on nearly hopeless calldowns again!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I believe we all put BB, not SB, on 86o, the debate was whether SB had a set or was overplaying TPTK with AJo. I'm quite shocked to see SB had 86o, it seems likely BB had the same, why else cap the flop, call the turn, and fold the R for one more? Interestingly BB probabably could have taken the pot with a raise on the river, hero would fold for 2 bets and SB would fold his 86?

tyler_cracker · #7 01-24-2007, 08:28 PM

after the flop action, i think it's equally likely that BB has a big draw, that BB has a monster, or that BB is being retarded and capping because he likes to say Capuccino! (probably out loud -- even though he's sitting alone in the dark).

after the turn action, we can usually eliminate option 2.

it's good that you're practicing your hand reading, but sometimes opponents do things that don't make any sense for any hand they could possibly have. this is why we [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] playing against them.

i think you played this hand perfectly. you aren't sure you have the best hand, but you have the best hand often enough, so you call down.

bennyhana · #8 01-24-2007, 08:46 PM

when in doubt, call down.

that is some wierd [censored]. I'd proably call down too. no way am i folding.

Gib · #9 01-24-2007, 08:57 PM

This looks fine, usually I expect BB to have a something like a set most of the time but given his turn call we may still be ok. SB could be overplaying AJ/KJ/QJ here.

martybonus · #10 01-25-2007, 10:17 AM

:grunch:

what on earth?

hrm. could BB be attempting some vague attempt at a bluff? if i'm reading the AF correct, probably not.

at .1/.2 (or similar) i get alot of cold callers which SCs, suited Aces, even rag kings or rag queens. granted BB's a little tighter than alot of players at this level, it's still strange. mis-click?

turn action from SB seems to be indicating a jack with a decent kicker which you have beat. i think the call here is fine given that BB quieted down immediately.

however, a case could be made for raising the turn. if he 3bets you, you know he's got that 89 you feared and it's time to walk away. but he might well fold if he's only playing top pair. a raise on the turn might have clarified your situation a bit more.

as played, calling the river seems fine.