Post Flop with JJ

[shefhammer]

Comments on all streets appreciated. No significant read other than villain seems solid. This was a $22.

Thanks in advance...

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t30/t60
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2240
UTG+1: t2200
MP1: t1215
Hero: t4535
Button: t3730
SB: t1940
BB: t4140

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t180</font>, 2 folds, BB calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t270)</font>.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t390, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets t180</font>, Hero calls t180 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t570)</font>.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t750, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t300</font>, BB calls t300 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1050)</font>.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t1350, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets t720</font>, Hero folds

[Phil Van Sexton]

The safe play would be to fold the flop. The call on the flop isn't awful. You both have a lot of chips, so a good player might make a stab with small bet like he did. Calling isn't horrible against some aggressive players with these stacks.

I don't like calling the flop and betting the turn. It would've been much better to raise the flop to 500. On second thought, I like a flop raise against a solid villian more than a call.

[Dan.]

Flop call is not horrible, but when an opponent leads out without impetus, it's often because he has a good hand and expects to be raised. If you called the flop, checking behind on the turn would be best. You're either still ahead, or still way behind to a K or now possibly 56.

[The Yugoslavian]

Philly,

You still play poker? You're still alive?

HUZZAH!!

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Yugoslav

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Philly,

You still play poker? You're still alive?

HUZZAH!!

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Occasionally, and barely. See you in 3 weeks at Flamingo. Go Patriots!

[Hercules]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is not horrible, but when an opponent leads out without impetus, it's often because he has a good hand and expects to be raised. If you called the flop, checking behind on the turn would be best. You're either still ahead, or still way behind to a K or now possibly 56.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...my experience is exact the opposite. I kind of never respect donk-leads. I almost always raise them and they fold like 60% of the time. The other 35% they have a FD or a bad pair and i stack them. 5% of the time they really got it, but they stack me like only the 2,5% of the time, when i got something like AA/KK.

[shefhammer]

Thanks for responses so far. I felt the flop bet may be simply him taking a shot with an under pair like 88 or 99 to see if he could take it cheaply but I didn't fancy raising here as he just as easily could have been betting a K and was wanting a raise as was mentioned.

However, when he then checked the turn I no longer suspected a K since a check seemed too weak, which brings me to...

[ QUOTE ]

You're either still ahead, or still way behind to a K or now possibly 56.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm ahead, which I thought I was at the turn, should I not definitely be betting here to protect against a club, Q or A?

That's why I fired 300.

Then when he made a strong bet on the river I thought maybe he'd hit runner runner for the flush??? Really had trouble putting him on a hand here. Maybe he had a K all along.

I assume, as played, no-one calls the river?

[Mike MacIntosh]

Tuff spot.

If this happened at one of my eight tables:

I would check behind on the turn (pot control w/mediocre hand).

I would call any reasonable bet on the river.

As played, I fold the river. Villain has you beat a high % of the time, and is simply taking you to value town.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for responses so far. I felt the flop bet may be simply him taking a shot with an under pair like 88 or 99 to see if he could take it cheaply but I didn't fancy raising here as he just as easily could have been betting a K and was wanting a raise as was mentioned.

However, when he then checked the turn I no longer suspected a K since a check seemed too weak, which brings me to...

[ QUOTE ]

You're either still ahead, or still way behind to a K or now possibly 56.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm ahead, which I thought I was at the turn, should I not definitely be betting here to protect against a club, Q or A?

That's why I fired 300.

Then when he made a strong bet on the river I thought maybe he'd hit runner runner for the flush??? Really had trouble putting him on a hand here. Maybe he had a K all along.

I assume, as played, no-one calls the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you are trying to protect your hand on the turn, but raising the flop ends the discussion even sooner. Even if he has a K, he might check the turn anyway, so calling and seeing what he does on the turn doesn't always buy you that much.

Yeah, you can't call that river. He could've hit a back door flush (which a flop raise would've eliminated, btw). I have no idea.

I'd like the flop call if you had fewer chips and wanted to put in the minimum necessary (and then check the turn). Here, you have plenty of chips to play this aggressively, and so does he. Most of the time in a SnG, you wouldn't have this option.

[shefhammer]

Thanks again. At the time I protected with a turn bet rather than with a flop raise because I only thought I was ahead after he checked the turn. I just didn't know whether or not I was when he lead the flop.

I think I like raising though as you suggest - at the very least it gives me more information for the same price, and as you say I'm okay for chips.

Would the flop raise be the correct play at higher buy-ins?

Cheers,

Adam