On 'Salary' Strategies (Off Topic, PB-ish)

[Grunch]

There was a post yesterday by someone who said that he basically never takes money out of the game. He just lets it build and build. My personal opinion is that it's important to take money out of the game, for a couple reasons.

For one thing, the whole point of poker is to win money. OK sure, there's the whole competition aspect, but the game is scored in dollars. Winning at poker and not taking money out of the game is winning the war without reaping the spoils. Taking money out of poker doesn’t compromise the competition aspect of the game – at least, there’s no reason why it should – so there’s no reason not to do it. You’re not ‘selling out’ when you enjoy spending the money you win from poker. As for me, one of the reasons I play poker is because of the competition, too. Every time I take money out of the game and (eventually) get actual cash dollars, it’s a tangible mark of my success at that competition.

It can also possibly help your game if you take some of your winnings and do something with it that you enjoy. Maybe you buy an iPod or an XBox, go out to a restaurant you've always wanted to try, or even donate to charity. Then later on down the line, when things are going badly for you in the game, you can whip out the iPod or remember the donation you made, and it can buoy your spirits a little and help you through the rough patch. As for myself, I have bought a few nice things like this messenger bag which is on my back every day. And I’ve even helped my family out by paying a big, unexpected tax bill when it would have been difficult to pay it any other way.

There are a few things to consider before taking money out of your bankroll. Your salary strategy, whatever you decide it to be, shouldn’t have a materially negative impact on your ability to play the game or achieve your goals in the game. For example, maybe one of your main goals in poker is to move up in stakes. If you’re using a bankroll strategy as one factor in deciding when to move up (as you should be), then you shouldn’t implement a salary strategy that makes it difficult for your bankroll to grow. Maybe one of your goals is to reduce your risk of ruin as much as possible. It may be especially important in this case that your strategy never reduces your bankroll from the previous month.

One thing to keep in mind is that (in my opinion) once you take a dollar out of the game, it should never come back in. If you withdrawal $100 this week and then next week you lose $300, the $100 should remain out of the game. Don’t put it back in, just take the hit. This is because if you freely move money in to and out of the game as your bankroll fluctuates, then the end result is that you are treating all your money as if it were in your bankroll. It’s important to keep your poker roll separate from your non-poker life. That’s not to say that your bankroll can’t be funded by your non-poker money. After all, that’s how rolls get seeded to begin with. But this should be exceedingly rare. How rare? I myself haven’t deposited a dime from my non-poker money in to poker in over 2 years. If you find yourself moving money from life to poker too often, it might be time to sit back and re-evaluate whether you are right for this game (that is, if you are playing to win and not for recreation).

What are some specific strategies?

Some people like to keep their bankroll at a certain amount. They will always withdrawal any amount that they have above that amount, on some schedule. This seems to be a method that is popular with professionals; people who are interested most of all in keeping their risk of ruin to the minimum, and who are less interested in moving up in stakes.

Other people like to withdrawal a specific amount of money on a regular schedule; just like at a job. In fact this method is probably more popular with professional players who rely on poker as their income. In order to succeed at this you will need to be able to beat your game reliably, and have a big enough roll to weather the inevitable long dry spells.

I’m not a professional player, and one of my goals is to move up in stakes. My personal method is to, every Friday, withdrawal 25% of that week’s gain. If I received a rakeback payment that week, I take the whole rakeback payment too. If I lost money that week, I just absorb the loss. I don’t withdrawal any money (except the rakeback, which I still take) on weeks when I lose.

When I was playing below NL100, I didn’t withdrawal anything at all; not even rakeback. My reasons were 2-fold. The money wasn’t big enough to really mean anything to me, and my goals to move up in stakes outweighed everything else. These days I still am moving up in stakes, but I’m not in an urgent rush to do so anymore. (As of this writing I’m at NL200).

When I first started typing this post, it was really just a “here’s what I do, what do you do?” kind of post. I guess it turned in to a little bit more than that. But I’m still interested in what other posters do. So if you have a strategy that you use, and you’re willing to share it, please post.

[wslee00]

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When I was playing below NL100, I didn’t withdrawal anything at all; not even rakeback. My reasons were 2-fold. The money wasn’t big enough to really mean anything to me, and my goals to move up in stakes outweighed everything else. These days I still am moving up in stakes, but I’m not in an urgent rush to do so anymore. (As of this writing I’m at NL200).

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This is probably the reason the other poster doesn't take out the money... your line was crossed at NL100, his line just hasn't been crossed yet.

[smellmuth]

cool post. ive been very unorganized with my money, and now am planning on moving out on my own very soon so i need to get a financial plan together. poker will be my primary income. up till now i just have been putting 2k in my bank account and refilling from neteller when it runs out. i think i might need to rethink this.

[Hince]

I use a simular strategy, when I was playing lower than 100NL, I would just keep everything in play. However, once I got to the 100NL level, I would withdraw 50% of that weeks gain. Then everytime I hit 30buyins for a new level, I move up. It seems to ensure you get a decent number of hands at each given level, move up fairly quickly, and reap the rewards of card playing.

[Al_Money]

Nice post Grunch. Personally, I keep all my winnings in my poker accounts, and I cash out my rakeback from every month into my savings account. I'm not really planning to move up right now so whenever I have 30+ buyins online, I'll cash out a bit here and there.

[StarRain]

I like to read this kind of post more than strategy discussion to be honest. Most of the ways to play certain hands can be found on one of the books professionally written. However, poker career is too different from person to person. I am glad to share the stories with everyone out there in this poker world. I myself have turned pro since Jan 2006, and I still wonder why some players who are winning @ this game don't like this kind of lifestyle. I guess it's mainly about the "degree" of loving poker. I can play up to 8 hours a day and still don't feel bored (Maybe 12 tabling helps on that issue heavily too).
For me, the most important goal for me is to move up in level + buy off some luxurious stuffs while I am still relatively young (26 yo). I don't want to drive an Audi TT in my 30s. I rather have it now. Therefore my "salary" strategy is kinda different.
I basically withdraw $10000 US every 3 months for my living cost (yes I do spend $3300US each month, I have almost achived my dream lifestyle), and save the rest of them on the PS account or Neteller if I think a reload bonus is coming shortly. I make averagely around $8000 monthly at this stage. I have saved around $30000US so far, which means the new Audi TT is not too far away from me. Certainly I hope to move up to NL$5000 sooner or later. However, I prefer to enjoy my last few years of being young right now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Don Key E37]

I'm a small timer and still play NL100 and some NL200. I'm not that good at poker but I make some money and consider it a sidejob kind of. If I didn't withdraw ever sure I'd be rolled for NL400 no problem but when I'm running bad and hate the game I can think back to the trip to Ireland I took payed for by poker and some of the nice things I've bought and then its not so bad. Just having more money wouldn't make me feel better but this does. Also I like to feel I'm getting paid for my time, and am in no rush to get to NL1000 (Sure it would be great but if it happens it happens but I'm taking my time and enjoying myself now). I'm 28 now and if poker gives me money to bomb around and have fun great, I figure I can always take it more seriously when I'm older and mabye married and bored.

[4_2_it]

Solid post. As a recreational player, I find that goal setting works for me. I'll decide on what new toy my hobby should fund and when I win enough for it, I pull it out of my roll [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'm shooting for LASIK this year, but am not sure if I will get in enough hands to make it happen.

[Tickner]

I usually just take money out as needed. Good post though, and I agree. The most depressing thing that can happen, and its happened to me, is to continually move up in stakes not taking out any winnings from the previous level, and then get dominated in the higher stakes and lose weeks worth of building with nothing to show for it.

[FletchJr.]

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The most depressing thing that can happen, and its happened to me, is to continually move up in stakes not taking out any winnings from the previous level, and then get dominated in the higher stakes and lose weeks worth of building with nothing to show for it.

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Your not alone on that one, I've attempted to jump up to 1/2 three times now, and every time has ended up losing 1k, thats 15BI's at 200 a piece. /cry.

I'm also getting in a habit of cashing out regularly. The only thing i need to work on as far as money mangement goes is, SPENDING!!.... i waste money, my mother would cry if she saw my spending habits.