AKo <-- should I just fold it pre-flop?

MFpoker · #1 01-09-2007, 02:08 PM

I must give this hand too much credit because it's one of my biggest net loss hands. I'd like to share a couple hands and get your input on how I could have done things differently and won (or lost less).

Hand #1
Villian is 26.21/1.94/0.43 after 101 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($58.75)
Hero ($59.05)
MP1 ($14.90)
MP2 ($88.05)
CO ($51.65)
Button ($78.30)
SB ($58.05)
BB ($10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 4 folds, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($10.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5.

River: ($20.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $20.50

Results in white below: 
SB has 6c 6s (two pair, sixes and fours).
Hero has As Kh (one pair, fours).
Outcome: SB wins $20.50. 

Hand #2
Villian is 50.0/4.17/2.00 after 25 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($18.10)
SB ($29.50)
Hero ($51.25)
UTG ($67.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $1.50.

Turn: ($10) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($14) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $20

Results in white below: 
SB has Kh 4h (flush, king high).
Hero has Ks Ah (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $20.

Keys Myaths · #2 01-09-2007, 02:11 PM

Hand 1: Check behind on the turn most times. If he's calling on a flop like that, he most likely has you beat.

Hand 2: You deserved that. STOP MINRAISING!

Fore59 · #3 01-09-2007, 02:15 PM

No, you shouldn't fold it preflop.

Hand 1: The guy's numbers seem to indicate he's a complete call station. Wait until you get a hand to bet into this guy. Guys like him are not going to fold.

Hand 2: Keys is exactly right. You need to raise to about $6. Make him pay to draw to that flush.

Unknown Soldier · #4 01-09-2007, 02:11 PM

1: why are you betting the turn, what do you think villain has?

2: what are you trying to accomplish by that min-raise?

4_2_it · #5 01-09-2007, 02:15 PM

Hand 1 -- You are either WA/WB on the turn. Check and take a free card. I wouldn't bother bluffing at the river becuase every PP is looking you up.

Hand 2 -- Raise the flop to $8. Then you can check the turn behind and draw to teh nuts and plan to call a small river bet.

LateFlag · #6 01-09-2007, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 -- Raise the flop to $8. Then you can check the turn behind and draw to teh nuts and plan to call a small river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a question about the turn play on this one. My inclination is to get my chips in here, and the reason why I think that is because 1) I might very well have the best hand and 2) if I'm behind, I've got 9 outs to a nut hand that isn't getting much additional action if it hits.

Does this reasoning have any validity, or am I way off base?

rael · #7 01-09-2007, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question about the turn play on this one. My inclination is to get my chips in here, and the reason why I think that is because 1) I might very well have the best hand and 2) if I'm behind, I've got 9 outs to a nut hand that isn't getting much additional action if it hits.

Does this reasoning have any validity, or am I way off base?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the question here is what hands do you think he'll call a turn bet/raise with that you beat? Maybe a weak A, but he's probably dumping pretty much everything else. I think you're better off calling his smallish bets (or checking turn, calling river if you raise the flop).

keikiwai · #8 01-09-2007, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My inclination is to get my chips in here, and the reason why I think that is because 1) I might very well have the best hand and 2) if I'm behind, I've got 9 outs to a nut hand that isn't getting much additional action if it hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he calls your trun ai, you def. do NOT have the best hand.

and you'r not getting odds to hit on the river if you're ai, even if he's only got 2 pair

AND if he does have a flush, you do NOT have 9 outs, you have 7

4_2_it · #9 01-09-2007, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 -- Raise the flop to $8. Then you can check the turn behind and draw to teh nuts and plan to call a small river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a question about the turn play on this one. My inclination is to get my chips in here, and the reason why I think that is because 1) I might very well have the best hand and 2) if I'm behind, I've got 9 outs to a nut hand that isn't getting much additional action if it hits.

Does this reasoning have any validity, or am I way off base?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain is ahead, I would expect a turn c/r AI which hero cannot call. I'd rather get to a cheap showdown. Checking the turn is about pot control and protecting a hand that has showdown value, not building a pot.

What worse hands do think will check call both a turn and river bet? I'd rather try to get the last bet in on the river in this situation. Most Ax hand would call a 1/2 pot bet.

MFpoker · #10 01-09-2007, 02:31 PM

ya the pre-flop re-raises are something i definitely need to work on.

as far as the second hand, I was convinced this guy was just trying to push me around because he was so loose and moderately aggressive.

as far as posting results, i've seen many people post results hidden in white colored text. is this still not OK?