A situation I'm not sure how to handle...

[HoneyBadger]

Suppose you pick up AKo UTG+2, all fold, you raise, MP3 calls cold, others fold.

Flop comes: 8c 3c 9d

You bet (?) and he raises. Now what? I assume a call?

Turn: 3s

Now what? You suspect he might very well be freecard raising his flush or straight draw, or possibly a smallish pair. When you check, since he still has the initiative, he will likely bet and you can't really call, can you? If you bet he won't fold, he might raise if he's tricky, or just call. Then what on the river if it's another blank? you suspect he might have missed the flush, but can't be sure. b/f?

I hate this situation... what are reasonable lines here?

[Haupt_234]

Ahhh, the pain of being OOP.

I definitely think you have to call his flop raise. You are getting decent odds at this point and may (?) have a BDFD. Calling (rather than folding) is also important so that you don't show him that your raises PF don't mean much and allow him to think he can run over you on a dry flop.

Without a read, you really can't call the turn. You don't know if villain has a draw, a low PP, a slowplayed higher PP, or even something like A8s/A9s.

Haupt_234

[threeducks]

I am not sure how to do this all the time. But, yesterday I had AK and I raised UTG+2 and was called by MP1. Blanks hit and I bet, he just called. Turn blank and I bet and he just called. River check, check and I won - he had ATs

On your hand you are raised. I would call the flop raise and check/fold the turn if UI. If A or K hit the turn I would bet it and go from there.

I am not a great player so my advice is how I play. But, I agree that you should not fold to the flop raise.

The problem is compounded if you check the Turn and he checks behind. Then the River becomes difficult to play. You would like a free showdown but if you check OOP he might bet as a bluff.

I would tend to bet the river if he checked the turn and fold to a raise - duh.

Recent cardplayer has a series on betting the Turn by Barry T. There might be some tips there when you have called his raise and missed the Turn.

Good question since it happens a lot with AK. I have heard a lot of players mumble that they no longer raise with AK.

[Clover362]

I think for this situation (which happend alot so thanks for the post) if you think he would raise with a draw sometimes it works to 3 band the flop (i know i'm going to get yelled at this but think about it). if you three bet it and another blank comes missing the draw you'll probably get him to fold on the turn with a bet as it now looks much more like you're playing an overpair and his pair outs are no good. obviously this move is read/player dependent( would he get of a pair if he suspected you hand an overpare? would he go into call down mode due to the size of the pot? ect) but i think with the righht timing it allows a few more of your Ak hands to be winners.

[W. Deranged]

This is a good point from Haupt. A mantra I try to tell myself (particularly having played mostly 6max over the last year or so) is:

"Don't fight unduly for small pots without cause."

You don't know where you're at, you have basically no leverage, and your opponent is a mystery. Sure, some of the time you'll be angry in retrospective when you learn your opponent is a lagtard who you were likely beating, but that's only a percentage of the time and shouldn't bother you.

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling (rather than folding) is also important so that you don't show him that your raises PF don't mean much and allow him to think he can run over you on a dry flop.

Without a read, you really can't call the turn. You don't know if villain has a draw, a low PP, a slowplayed higher PP, or even something like A8s/A9s.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone notice the contradiction?

[Grease]

I've been thinking about this since its been posted, but I've been off and on the computer in lab.

You can't fold the flop. The odds are too good, and if you fold there, people will start taking shots at you when they think you have AK and missed.

That said, you're getting roughtly 6:1 (just under) on the turn, and you have 6ish outs to improve if you're behind. 6/47=about 8, which means you're a 7:1 dog (please correct my math, I'm bleary eyed ATM and a moron all the time.)

That said, I think you can peel the turn if he bets, assuming he's not a rock or a total LP. If he's either of those, then I def chuck it in, but if he's more on the aggressive side, then I would be more liable to call.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
That said, you're getting roughtly 6:1 (just under) on the turn, and you have 6ish outs to improve if you're behind. 6/47=about 8, which means you're a 7:1 dog (please correct my math, I'm bleary eyed ATM and a moron all the time.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're calling solely to hit you hand and fold unimproved, realize many will call with Axs. And it could be very likely he hit his 'x' so the A is a tainted out. Not to mention, you may have zero implied odds if you hit your hand as he very well may not pay off if you bet with a worse hand, nor bet with a worse hand at that point.

b

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That said, you're getting roughtly 6:1 (just under) on the turn, and you have 6ish outs to improve if you're behind. 6/47=about 8, which means you're a 7:1 dog (please correct my math, I'm bleary eyed ATM and a moron all the time.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're calling solely to hit you hand and fold unimproved, realize many will call with Axs. And it could be very likely he hit his 'x' so the A is a tainted out. Not to mention, you may have zero implied odds if you hit your hand as he very well may not pay off if you bet with a worse hand, nor bet with a worse hand at that point.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

what about calling down because I have the nuts?

[Grease]

How often do you think you're ahead here?

I think there's a significant minority of the time that we are, but I'm not to solid in situations like this.