Trickier Sit N Go Question

[David Sklansky]

Four good players left. Two have large stacks. 300-600 blinds. Big blind has 100 behind him (700 total). UTG folds. You are on button with 1100 and have KJ offsuit. Call, raise or fold?

[Rotting]

I raise all-in here. Call gets you nowhere, if SB is gonna play--the rest of your money is getting in. You don't fold as you're only due one more free hand before being in "obligatory push mode" anyway.

[Phanekim]

1) Call. More options yet still putting some pressure on sb to raise if he has anything. In short, you don't give up your ability to act behind the bb.

[freemoney]

call im too lazy to write it out but call.

[LandonM]

With those circumstances (stack and blind levels), all in.
At that point, it isn't like you can afford to put in a 600 BB call but then "fold" to a reraise, so I'd much rather push it up front with the chance that I will at least get the blinds in a walk (which itself is almost a double-up). If I get called, at least I have K/J, which is likely live with an over to a player who would be inclined to call with a weak ace.

If there is a dominating ace or PP behind me, that's poker. But 4 handed, those blinds, a stack that size with a folder ahead of me, K/J is all in- and more times than not will be good.

As another poster said... You only have one hand before the blinds decide your fate- I'd much rather go with K/J than (r)/(r) when I catch the BB.

[MEJG2]

Easy Fold. Let the BB do the work and your ITM. If SB folds, push ATC into big stack.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
call im too lazy to write it out but call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the first time I've ever agreed with you?

[DCJ311]

call, if sb raises and bb folds, you fold. if sb raises and sb calls, you call. the rest is easy

[RobNottsUk]

I'm going to presume it's a 10 seater, with starting tc 1,000. 1,800 tc are with shorties. That leaves each big stack with region of 4,100 each.

With AA, if the SB calls, BB folds. I can't be worse than 75:25 pre-flop (most likely much better than that on average). If I double, I've got good chances of 2nd place all of a sudden.

If SB folds, and BB calls, I'm very likely to make 3rd, with reasonable chances of 2nd.

Limping, against 2 random hands, and checking down, is too liable to lead to an awful mistake on the flop. Say SB has JT, and the flop is T-hi, now bets, BB folds, and now you have to decide wether your Aces are good, in a situation where you can be outdrawn and finish 4th if you call.

Whilst ICM may be best model available, I'm not sure the optimum play is to follow the herd, when everyone else is obeying it, or playing incorrectly according to it. I play in games, where ppl seek out folders for example. It doesn't help my results if I volunteer for the bubble, to be blinded away short-handed, knowing my raises have no fold equity. They may be playing "badly" but if I don't adjust then I'm playing even worse!

[blackize]

Call.

If you push and the SB calls then the BB can fold leaving himself with 100 chips and hope you lose. If you just call, the SB pushes, the BB is much more likely to call. Even if the BB folds in that 2nd scenario, he still has fewer chips and is forced all in next hand just like you are. The chances of knocking out the BB increase significantly which is all we really want.