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  #1  
Old 12-30-2006, 02:51 PM
JimRivett JimRivett is offline
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Default The End of an Era

The Commerce has removed the Terrace!

Prior to the expansion of the hotel and new top section, the Terrace was the top section. It was a dias roughly in the centre of the card room against the far wall. I believe there was room for eight, perhaps nine, tables. Since the expansion it had become the 9/18 hold'em section.

A friend of mine, he is also a prolific 2+2 poster, mentioned it to me last week. We went over to take a look and he was correct in claiming that when you look out over original poker room it looks like a sea of poker players!
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2006, 04:03 PM
DeuceKicker DeuceKicker is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

Yep. They did it because removing the terrace allowed them to add seven more tables.

I liked the terrace. There's too much foot traffic through there now, and the lack of a railing allows the chip runners to wander off.
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2006, 04:11 PM
Dynasty Dynasty is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

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  #4  
Old 12-30-2006, 05:14 PM
AlienBoy AlienBoy is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

Yea I liked the terrace - it made playing 9/18 seem special... lol


AB
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  #5  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:08 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
The Commerce has removed the Terrace!

Prior to the expansion of the hotel and new top section, the Terrace was the top section. It was a dias roughly in the centre of the card room against the far wall. I believe there was room for eight, perhaps nine, tables. Since the expansion it had become the 9/18 hold'em section.

A friend of mine, he is also a prolific 2+2 poster, mentioned it to me last week. We went over to take a look and he was correct in claiming that when you look out over original poker room it looks like a sea of poker players!

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately the sea has so little room between tables that the claustrophobic among us are having an ongoing nervous breakdown while playing. The closest thing I could find to an aisle seat for a 400 NL game yesterday was back against the west wall. The extra space allowed room for a series of food trays allowing me to eat about $60 worth of comped food amounting to over ten thousand calories in a single nine hour session.

Hopefully the crowding will diminish with the introduction of new collection policies on I think January 7th, 2007. My guess is this will be post-worthy.

~ Rick
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:21 PM
Off Duty Off Duty is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hopefully the crowding will diminish with the introduction of new collection policies on I think January 7th, 2007. My guess is this will be post-worthy.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

How much worse can they make it than it is now?
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:48 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hopefully the crowding will diminish with the introduction of new collection policies on I think January 7th, 2007. My guess is this will be post-worthy.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

How much worse can they make it than it is now?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I read on the back wall in the $400 buyin NL area (along with the sign in the hallway between top and the main (old) section) quite a bit worse.

At the same time I wonder if there "stepped" drops may open a door to more competitive drops elsewhere.

~ Rick

I didn't change any content, just fixed a misplaced quote. -RR
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2006, 11:57 AM
sternroolz sternroolz is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hopefully the crowding will diminish with the introduction of new collection policies on I think January 7th, 2007. My guess is this will be post-worthy.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

How much worse can they make it than it is now?

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I read on the back wall in the $400 buyin NL area (along with the sign in the hallway between top and the main (old) section) quite a bit worse.

At the same time I wonder if there "stepped" drops may open a door to more competitive drops elsewhere.


[/ QUOTE ]

My understanding is that the increase in rake(by $1?) is due to the raise in Californias minimum wage(puke....god I hate socialists). Anyway, I know for certain I will never play below $9-18 at Commerce again and probably not below $20-40. The other area casinos can have my action at $15-30 as long as the rake remains the same.

Increases like this really kill small games. I think this increase may make games at $4-8 and lower entirely -ev games. I already liked the $4-8 at Hustler...I put in maybe 40 hours last year donking at $4-8 or $6-12....Commerce will never see that action from me. Also, the rake effectively ensures I simply will not play as much. At $15-30, and $20-40 I will not play if I am not in the correct frame of mind, if I am tired or, anything else is going on that might disrupt my ability to play my best. So if the dog barks in the morning and wakes me up....no poker. If I do work around the house and am tired...no poker. If I am upset about something and likely to tilt...no poker.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2006, 05:51 PM
AlienBoy AlienBoy is offline
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Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
If I am upset about something and likely to tilt...no poker.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm pretty sure that's the one thing that keeps me from being a winner over the long term. Tilt sucks..


AB
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:09 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,634
Default Re: The End of an Era

[ QUOTE ]
[Increases like this really kill small games. I think this increase may make games at $4-8 and lower entirely -ev games. I already liked the $4-8 at Hustler...I put in maybe 40 hours last year donking at $4-8 or $6-12....Commerce will never see that action from me. Also, the rake effectively ensures I simply will not play as much. At $15-30, and $20-40 I will not play if I am not in the correct frame of mind, if I am tired or, anything else is going on that might disrupt my ability to play my best. So if the dog barks in the morning and wakes me up....no poker. If I do work around the house and am tired...no poker. If I am upset about something and likely to tilt...no poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you and some other readers of this forum are probably aware I've fought harder to keep drop under control (or have it taken in a more reasonable matter) than just about anybody, with modest success here and there. That said, I do believe the clubs should take what "the market" will bear. Since the market is closed to new entries (i.e., you can't open another card club in the Los Angeles area) and room to expand among existing clubs is very limited expect drops and time charges to rise much faster than wage increases and the general rate of inflation.

My focus (especially during the last few years) has been on taking drop so that it isn't so punishing on small pots for the lower limit players. Those who play weekend nights may have never seen a small pot but these situations come up often early in the day when more tight retired types are thrown in the player mix and games start with props in some clubs. The main problem is that the full drop is taken on any flop, and it can be very discouraging to see two limpers in a 3/6 game, the SB fold, and a flop bet take down a $10 pot minus a $4 collection ($3 plus $1 for jackpot).

The sick think is I'm certain this costs the clubs money by making the early morning games harder to start and tighter games harder to keep going. A club like the Commerce has so many tables going at 3/6 and 4/8 that the tighter players can disperse among other tables through table changes; unfortunately this isn't true at other clubs.

The other sick thing is that the increase in drop and collection will often drive the most "collection aware" players to other clubs (your post is an example). These players are often tighter so often the club with the highest drop has the best games (as long as they have economy of scale to start games easily, and the Commerce certainly does).

There may be opportunity here. We will have to wait until Jan 7 to be sure of the details but from the sign I read it looks like the Commerce will be taking the drop in steps (i.e., some before the flop, some on the flop, some on the turn, and so on). If so this may open up the door for something I've supported for several years, that is taking the drop in increments based on events (such as a called bet post flop). This gets around the problem that taking drop on pot size is illegal.

If done right (my guess is the Commerce won't do it right but I'd like to see first) we may be able to find a precedent that will help us lobby for a drop system that is both good for the clubs and good for the players.

Anyway, let's wait until Jan 7th and see what happens.

~ Rick
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