(PS $2/$4): Another AA in Big Pot

Scotch78 · #1 12-21-2006, 07:59 PM

First orbit, so very little for reads.

I have seen the SB call down with A-high, when the flop was paired and the turn was two cold to him. He has also open-limped with KK, then capped the flop with his overpair.

MP has 3bet a Qxx flop with Q7 out of position.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, MP calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, MP calls, Hero calls, Button raises all-in, SB calls, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero . . .

Scott

justkevin · #2 12-21-2006, 08:20 PM

Can you explain your flop play a bit? It seems like a clear raise, but instead you called and only 3-bet after the button raised.

Turn seems like a bet/fold.

Scotch78 · #3 12-21-2006, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain your flop play a bit? It seems like a clear raise, but instead you called and only 3-bet after the button raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured the button would raise his last $2 just about 100% of the time.

Also, bet-folding this turn is close to being the worst "advice" I have ever seen propagated on this board. I'm assuming it was a typo?

Scott

justkevin · #4 12-21-2006, 08:37 PM

No, it's not. Which part do you object to, the bet or the fold? I'll assume it's the fold otherwise you wouldn't have posted the question.

After review, I can see calling a raise given the size of the pot. You're certainly behind any thing that might you raise but you do have more outs than I first thought.

In the future, please don't ask for advice and then insult people who offer it.

Scotch78 · #5 12-21-2006, 08:40 PM

We're probably better off if you just refrain from replying to my hand posts. However, feel free to be belligerent instead, I could use another bull to butt heads with now that naphand is gone.

Scott

justkevin · #6 12-21-2006, 08:42 PM

Fair enough, please do likewise.

Oink · #7 12-21-2006, 09:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. Bet/call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scotch78 · #8 12-21-2006, 09:17 PM

For those of you so clearly advocating a turn bet, what confluence of opponents' hands are you expecting? How often do you think I am ahead? How many outs are you giving me when behind?

Scott

milesdyson · #9 12-21-2006, 09:26 PM

I don't understand why you think you knew that button was going to raise the flop.

MP has anything. QJ, AQ, KJ, random aces hands, clubs, etc. You beat all of these hands.

SB's flop donk is likely a weak pair or a draw - none of which improved on the turn unless he hit two pair with KQ, QT, or had clubs that straightened up.

Button is all-in.

You have AA on a K8T,Q board and you have two opponents. One raised preflop in fairly late position and just called a ton of bets on the flop, which you should expect him to do with a very wide range of hands. The other player called a million bets in the small blind like a huge fish and donked into you on the K8T flop and decided his hand was only good enough to go into call-down mode after he was raised only once - by an all-in player.

So you can say you're ahead 25% of the time or some other ridiculous amount of the time, you can get angry at someone for trying to give you advice and missing that you had a gutshot, you can "strongly disagree," etc., or you can play like a sane human being and raise the flop the first time because you don't have superhuman powers that tell you button will conveniently allow you to put more bets in on the flop. Then, you can do some fairly rudimentary hand reading to make the decision to value bet the turn.

Sorry if anything I have said above is rude, but you are being passive-aggressive, and you're making me tilt 5 minutes before I go home from work.

Scotch78 · #10 12-21-2006, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you think you knew that button was going to raise the flop.

MP has anything. QJ, AQ, KJ, random aces hands, clubs, etc. You beat all of these hands.

SB's flop donk is likely a weak pair or a draw - none of which improved on the turn unless he hit two pair with KQ, QT, or had clubs that straightened up.

Button is all-in.

You have AA on a K8T,Q board and you have two opponents. One raised preflop in fairly late position and just called a ton of bets on the flop, which you should expect him to do with a very wide range of hands. The other player called a million bets in the small blind like a huge fish and donked into you on the K8T flop and decided his hand was only good enough to go into call-down mode after he was raised only once - by an all-in player.

So you can say you're ahead 25% of the time or some other ridiculous amount of the time, you can get angry at someone for trying to give you advice and missing that you had a gutshot, you can "strongly disagree," etc., or you can play like a sane human being and raise the flop the first time because you don't have superhuman powers that tell you button will conveniently allow you to put more bets in on the flop. Then, you can do some fairly rudimentary hand reading to make the decision to value bet the turn.

Sorry if anything I have said above is rude, but you are being passive-aggressive, and you're making me tilt 5 minutes before I go home from work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, except for putting you on tilt, this is the type of reply I was trying to elicit. Thank you. I still maintain that calling the flop bet is correct--the button has to go all-in less than 50% of the time for raising to be superior (even less if he would fold to my raise), and I think your average Joe pushes pretty close to 100%.

However, you are making a good argument for there being value in a turn bet.

Oh, and it wasn't just the gutshot that kevin missed, I had two likely outs to top set and a lot of outs to counterfeit two pair as well.

Scott