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#1
12-21-2006, 07:10 AM
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Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
Hand is 10-2, page 242. I post this because I think Harrington is very wrong in what he says.
Please don't move the thread to another forum as I think it will get better replies here. Situation: Toward the end of a one-table satellite. Players B and E are aggressive. Player C is super-aggressive. Your hand: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Stacks are: A: $610 B: $610 C: $2840 D: $1480 E: $1700 SB (HERO): $1330 BB: $1430 Blinds: $30/$60, no antes. A folds, B minraises to $120. C, D, E all fold to you. Hero calls. BB folds. The pot is now $300. Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Now, Harrington says you should lead with a "probe" (if it can be called such) bet of about half the pot, but the Hero decides to check. Harrington says: "He's an aggressive player, he's down to his last $490, and by checking you almost forced him to bluff. So you should call." (continues) "If you had led off with a bet of, say, $150, he might just have folded. But if he then came back over the top with an all-in bet, notice how easy your decision-making gets." And here you say to yourselves, of course, he thinks the play here is to lead/fold. But no. I continue to quote him: "Now the pot is $940 and it costs you $340 to call, those are 2.7-to-1 odds, and you have to call, unless you're sure he's playing with a high pair (and you never are). Train yourself to look for the plays that make future decisions easy" Now, explain just how is a bet/call play better than c/c to his all in? With the bet you're making him fold a larger percentage of his weak hands than he would've bet had you checked, and when he goes all in after you bet, you're still going to call! Sklansky would say, stop a bluff, then FOLD. Otherwise don't try to stop it! Even a rr all-in pf would be better than bet/calling this horrible flop. Im not saying c/c all in is the best course of action, but it seems certainly better than the one Harrington proposes. 
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#2
12-21-2006, 08:10 AM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
I really don't like preflop in this hand because it seems half your stack's gonna be put in the middle with this weak hand no matter what.
Can we consider folding pf ? Check folding some flops ?
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#3
12-21-2006, 10:35 AM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
I don't see how pushing the flop isn't the best course of action if we are calling any bet anyway. We want B to fold any 2 cards due to the pot size.
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#5
12-21-2006, 01:43 PM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
push preflop to avoid this messy confusion
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#6
12-21-2006, 05:44 PM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
Simple answer. ALthough DH is usually reliable and a very good player who has written some g0ot books, DO NOT take his word as gospel. There are several hands (this included) that he uses in his books that make me shake my head.
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#7
12-21-2006, 06:59 PM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
[ QUOTE ]
this really IS the wrong forum for this though. Its a SNG and the STT forum would be alot better at handling this question. It's their area of expertise. [/ QUOTE ] They would undoubtedly say to fold PF. I know... I used to be one.
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#8
12-21-2006, 07:11 PM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] this really IS the wrong forum for this though. Its a SNG and the STT forum would be alot better at handling this question. It's their area of expertise. [/ QUOTE ] They would undoubtedly say to fold PF. I know... I used to be one. [/ QUOTE ] In the SNG forum they say fold everything preflop. This is a single table WTA satellite, so one should play less conservatively. A lot of the SNG pros just play tight early and pushbot late. Really, this is an OK call with 3xBB blinds and antes in a live MTT, which is Harrington's specialty. Early on without ante and with typically loose play, this is an easy fold. One of the problems with the book is Harrington is looking at things in terms of big ante, where loose pushbotting and loose calls of preflop raises makes sense. I think online players have a better idea of how to play early MTT or SNG with no ante.
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#9
12-22-2006, 02:16 AM
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Re: Is Dan Harrington sane? Hand from his 2nd book.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] this really IS the wrong forum for this though. Its a SNG and the STT forum would be alot better at handling this question. It's their area of expertise. [/ QUOTE ] They would undoubtedly say to fold PF. I know... I used to be one. [/ QUOTE ] I am one and I can definitely see a merit to shoving preflop. Aggressive is pretty vague, but this is a preflop decision whether you shove or fold.
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