Razz: the effect of paired cards on 3rd street

*TT* · #1 12-06-2006, 12:38 AM

Lets think back to when we all first read the theory of poker, and learned about the fundamental therm of poker. We are going back to school kids!

As the hero you hold (5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and complete after seeing 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] fold, the next player to act raises with (xx)A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and the hand is now heads up - no other cards below an T were out.

Now lets further assume your opponent flashes his hole cards so we now know the villain holds (2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. What is the hero's best course of action verses the villain after he raises?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Bremen · #2 12-06-2006, 01:08 AM

Well I believe we're an equity favorite so I'd raise. Actually we should probably raise even if we didn't see his cards... I think this must be a trick question but I can't see any reason to smooth call since we're peeling 4th regardless.

*TT* · #3 12-06-2006, 01:09 AM

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Well I believe we're an equity favorite so I'd raise.

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Any other reasons?

Bremen · #4 12-06-2006, 01:22 AM

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Any other reasons?

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Well you talked about the fundamental theorem, but really the only additional opportunity our opponent gets when we raise is that they might raise again. Somehow I think you're trying to get at something on later streets...

*TT* · #5 12-06-2006, 01:29 AM

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Any other reasons?

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Well you talked about the fundamental theorem, but really the only additional opportunity our opponent gets when we raise is that they might raise again. Somehow I think you're trying to get at something on later streets...

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Let me rephrase... now we no longer know the villain's downcards. Based on the villain's possible hand range what are the other reasons to re-raise?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Troll_Inc · #6 12-06-2006, 01:34 AM

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Let me rephrase... now we no longer know the villain's downcards. Based on the villain's possible hand range what are the other reasons to re-raise?

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Raise
1. If you want to increase variance of your Razz results
2. Raise if your opponent is playing 50% of his hands.
3. If you just read Hellmuth's Razz section and want to price yourself into a 4th street call when you hit bad and opponent hits what looks to be a good card.

Just call
1. If you just read SOP.
2. If you want to decrease the variance of your Razz results.
3. You like folding on 4th when you hit bad.

2faded · #7 12-06-2006, 03:06 PM

ok, so hero has 2-4-7 or 2-5-7 and villain has xxa? i would raise to see how strong his hand really is or if villian was just raising cuase he had an ace showing. Depending on how good the player is, there is some good info that i could get if he capped or called. Also, what about raising to take control of the hand and make him catch good? If he catches good you act last and if he doesnt you continue to put pressure on him to make a good hand.
I'm new to razz...any of this make sense?

adanthar · #8 12-06-2006, 01:10 AM

You're phrasing the question bad - I mean, I'd reraise anything there, because we're playing perfectly post third. But yeah, the point is pretty clear.

*TT* · #9 12-06-2006, 01:27 AM

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You're phrasing the question bad - I mean, I'd reraise anything there, because we're playing perfectly post third. But yeah, the point is pretty clear.

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Lets now magically remove the hero's down cards, and replace them with (24) or (25). Its now a total coin flip as to who the favorite is.

Now for the next theoretical question because today is my day to act like Alex Trebeck: If we don't know the villain's down cards, should the hero still assume he or she is the favorite, or at worst a coinflip?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Bremen · #10 12-06-2006, 10:58 PM

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Now for the next theoretical question because today is my day to act like Alex Trebeck: If we don't know the villain's down cards, should the hero still assume he or she is the favorite, or at worst a coinflip?

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Hero is most definitely a favorite against villains range. I think we're only losing equity to A45 (maybe A47/A57, not sure). Also remember we were in a steal position so villain could (should) be reraising with worse hands than a 7 low, in which case we are really missing value if we just call.