Rare preflop slowplay

surfdoc · #1 12-02-2006, 11:26 AM

The guy to my left in the BB this hand is completely nutso. He will always play his BB for one more bet but sometimes folds for 2. He is 80/50 for 100 hands and will go to SD and put in many bets with any pair, pump any draw, and generally play maniacally. I thought keeping him in and concealing my hand strength would make just calling better. The initial PFR is standard TAG 27/20. Thoughts?

15/30 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

MATT111 · #2 12-02-2006, 12:02 PM

No doubt this is ok.

Surf · #3 12-02-2006, 02:06 PM

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No doubt this is ok.

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I agree. I seem to remember using this move on you back in the spring, too - but with AA.

Surf

Scary_Tiger · #4 12-02-2006, 02:18 PM

I'd 3-bet and expect BB to come along anyways.

Victor · #5 12-02-2006, 02:54 PM

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I'd 3-bet and expect BB to come along anyways.

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thats my thinking of these idiots. im much more inclined to just call if theres a decent player in the bb.

kiddo · #6 12-03-2006, 05:47 AM

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thats my thinking of these idiots. im much more inclined to just call if theres a decent player in the bb.

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But the great thing with this preflopcoldcall is what will happen with the TAG when we coldcall:

1) Preflopraising TAG will misread ur hand and put u on a not so high pair or a ok drawing hand like QJs, because with bad BB its profitable to call with a lot half decent hands. If BB is good there are a lot less hands that are rational to coldcall (implied odds are lower with good BB and good BB will fold more often if u 3bet then this bad BB), so TAG will now faster put u on some sort of tricky play.

2) When u go nuts with ur KK postflop the TAG will think u are trying to chase him out so u can get HU against the stupid LAG and his bad draw. IT will take him forever to understand u got an overpair. If BB is good u will not be as aggressive since u know he is not calling with rubbish.

If u 3bet preflop u will win a little more often, but a much smaller pot because they now read u correct.

Another poster said we should give up here if flop is Axx. I would normally just call down then. Good TAG will bet QQ JJ or 2nd pair topkicker, a good draw or a pure bluff (like KQs) often enough to make it profitable.

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I think this preflopcoldcall is great. U can also do it with a good BB but with this one is really intelligent.

surfdoc · #7 12-02-2006, 03:02 PM

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I'd 3-bet and expect BB to come along anyways.

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This was my only concern. He may very well cap with garbage and I lose some value but if he folds and the flop goes bet and TAG folds I will lose even more value. The way I played it, I will always get the LAGfish to play and collect the same small bet that I get from the TAG if I 3 bet. I also get a checkraise in on the flop and even more gravy if the BB hits any piece as he will usually donk the flop.

Pepsquad · #8 12-03-2006, 04:00 AM

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I'd 3-bet and expect BB to come along anyways.

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Why would you expect that? The read is that given the craziness of the game, BB will come along for one more bet. Our image is the tightest guy at the table. Why would you potentially shut him out p/f? Give the LAG a chance to be a LAG.

Scary_Tiger · #9 12-04-2006, 02:56 PM

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I'd 3-bet and expect BB to come along anyways.

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Why would you expect that? The read is that given the craziness of the game, BB will come along for one more bet. Our image is the tightest guy at the table. Why would you potentially shut him out p/f? Give the LAG a chance to be a LAG.

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Cause his VPIP is 80, so he's calling bets preflop with like 90% of his hands?

Our image doesn't matter, and nowhere in the OP did it say we have a nitty image, and all that matters is whether the LAG respects our image which is hard to imagine anyways.

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I think you're missing too much value since this guy is an 80/50. If you said the guy was a 50/30 with the same postflop tendencies I'd like it better.

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qft

donger · #10 12-02-2006, 02:52 PM

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The guy to my left in the BB this hand is completely nutso. He will always play his BB for one more bet but sometimes folds for 2. He is 80/50 for 100 hands and will go to SD and put in many bets with any pair, pump any draw, and generally play maniacally. I thought keeping him in and concealing my hand strength would make just calling better. The initial PFR is standard TAG 27/20. Thoughts?

15/30 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

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Are you planning on donking a lot of flops? Your relative position seems like it would be tough to trap the BB for a lot of bets. You might even stand a better chance of milking him if you take the lead PF.