So uh, how bad is the variance supposed to be at 2-7?

[Burdzthewurd]

I started off with a 120BB upswing, now in a 150BB downswing (pat 9s never holding up on river, whiffing smooth 7s multi-way against pat 10s firing all the way, losing #2 to #1 often, etc.) I have a pretty decent grasp of the game after propping and playing it 3-handed and HU often, I don't feel like I'm especially playing badly. Deathdonkey, TT, 246, answers?

[2461Badugi]

I'm setting a new low for personal downswings today. Currently 99bb.

Unlike holdem, variance in TD can change dramatically with your playing style, so I don't think there's an easy answer.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm setting a new low for personal downswings today. Currently 99bb.

Unlike holdem, variance in TD can change dramatically with your playing style, so I don't think there's an easy answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

My biggest single session downswing was around 90 bets. The game can be really brutal, thats why I am playing more Stud 8 and Razz now rather than TD, but I expect to be playing live TD 2-7 weekly within the next few months once I move to Vegas. Even with the variance, its still my favorite games - and oddly it becomes more beatable as the limits increase, which I would never say the same for any other game I play.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[2461Badugi]

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My biggest single session downswing was around 90 bets.

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At least I had a break in the middle. Cutting mine off at 98 now, as the biggest fish left and an old friend I'm not anxious to play against sat down.

[monroe]

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...and oddly it becomes more beatable as the limits increase, which I would never say the same for any other game I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range of limits are you talking about? Do you think this a general quirk of today's TD games/players, or a result of your own style of play?

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This is also why the upper limit players should always play a few 1/2 type games on the side to keep their minds fresh.

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Yes. Also, I know some of you are playing for a living, so this may not be worth your time, but I will suggest it anyway: Single-Table micro-limit TD or even play money TD. Take it seriously and focus not only on beating the game (which is trivial for any of you), but on crushing it. Don't be content with 15 BB/100. Shoot for 20, or more. Don't be afraid to revamp your game in order to do it. Limp (more) if you have to. Play passive at all stages before the second draw if you have to. The style of play required to crush these games is, I think, unrecognizable from the style required to beat the real games.

I believe that higher limit players (both Pros and Enthusiasts) should occasionally drop down to the lowest of the low in any game, to learn new ways to beat different types of players. Especially in TD, the variety of fish are numerous. Learn to exploit them all. You just need to be focused and take it very seriously, which is something that I understand may be hard for some of you who are used to playing big.

To the OP:

I can't fathom a 150 BB downswing at .5/1 or 1/2. If your losses came at these limits, I think you need to step back and reevaluate your play. One thing I do is play very straight-forward during the first 4 stages of a TD hand (predraw betting, first draw, second round betting, second draw). I rarely get out of line (I think), and any FPS or trickery against other tricky opponents is saved for the final 3 stages (third betting round, final draw, river betting). I try not to put myself in tough spots early in the hand, and by the last 3 stages I usually know where I'm at against most opponents and can mix up my play more confidently. Also, it helps to run well.

[*TT*]

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What range of limits are you talking about? Do you think this a general quirk of today's TD games/players, or a result of your own style of play?

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Draw is a card catching game, there are enough opportunities for event he biggest fish to catch and win against the strongest draws, its the nature of the beast. So put a few fish in the game, get some multi-way pots going, and b prepared to adjust your game for the huge suckouts that will occur. Its brutal, lower level games are really tough to beat but make you a much better player if you can.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[monroe]

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Its brutal, lower level games are really tough to beat...

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Hmmm... I don't know if I agree with this. At play money and .5/1, it certainly isn't true. I only have about 3500 hands combined there, but I haven't had any trouble (guess my winrate!). I can't imagine 1/2 and 2/4 playing significantly tougher.

I really don't know too much about your play, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have a habit of standing pat too early/often with breakable nines/tens. And maybe you lose too much when your opponents draw out and win the minimum when they brick?

Of course, if by "lower level games" you meant 3/6 to 5/10, then just ignore everything I said. Well, my advice about the nines might still be relevant.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm setting a new low for personal downswings today. Currently 99bb.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just flew past 150. Whee!

[gdsdiscgolfer]

200+ BB downswings happen in LHE, why wouldn't they happen in TD?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

variance in this game is quite high. 50bb swings in either direction within the same session are quite common place. don't be suprised if you consistently lose smooth draws to a gambler drawing 4. so much is dependent on catching good obviously.