Stop this ride! I want to get off! ($3/$6)

[stickdude]

I've been thinking about this hand for the last few days, and I'm still not sure what to think about it...

UTG+1 (55.32/2.55/1.24) has been getting slapped hard by the deck - 47% WtSD and still winning 51% of those. The next day I talked to someone at this table, and he said that she finished up over $800.

UTG (74.41/65.35/1.96 - yes, he really raises 65% of his hands preflop. If you play $3/$6 on FT, you probably know exactly who this is) is a maniac in every sense of the word. I've seen him cap with any two cards, draw or not.

And me, caught in the middle. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $126.50
UTG+1: $500
CO: $60
Button: $129
Hero: $165
BB: $178

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

<font color="blue">Having 3 cold callers was not unusual at this table, especially given who was raising.</font>

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12SB, 6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 caps</font>, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">Chaos, death, and mayhem ensues!! 4-way capped, but I have the NFD, so it's hang on for the ride, right?</font>

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (14.5BB, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

<font color="blue">Wheeee!! Where's the airsickness bag?</font>

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (27.5BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">Do I save two bets here with trips on a non-straight/non-flush board? Given the size of the pot, I think this is a must-call.</font>

Results:
Final pot: 33.5BB

[bobhalford]

What else can you do?

[deception5]

The only other option you have is to fold preflop.

[Peter Harris]

[ QUOTE ]
The only other option you have is to fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this is sarcasm from deception [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

whoever said some players would fold the flop or turn are smoking something i want to get hold of.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only other option you have is to fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this is sarcasm from deception [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually no, I don't think a preflop fold is bad here. We're getting just better than 5:1 here preflop ($1 SB I assume) with an easily dominated hand against the entire field (they aren't all maniacs). I don't think calling is bad, but I certainly think it's far from an insta-call.

[maniacut]

I thought you were being sarcastic too...

We're getting closer to 6.5:1 here because BB will often come along as well and very rarely 3ball us, but even when he does we find that if there is no cap we are getting even better odds. This hand doesn't suffer at all from RIO on a flush board except the rare times we're up against a fullhouse so I think that alone makes this a super super super easy call.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
We're getting closer to 6.5:1 here because BB will often come along as well and very rarely 3ball us, but even when he does we find that if there is no cap we are getting even better odds. This hand doesn't suffer at all from RIO on a flush board except the rare times we're up against a fullhouse so I think that alone makes this a super super super easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we suffer from RIO on a flush board, but we definitely do on an Axx board or an A2x board as we'll run into counterfeiting / better 2 pair issues. I was also including the BB coming along - we invest $5 with $1 already invested and each of our opponents put in $6. So 5:31 is about 6:1 (although this is more than I originally stated, I was just thinking around 6:30).

So the fact is we're hoping to hit a flush draw or better which is about 1/10th of the time. So we need to make up around $19 after the flop on average (whether we win or lose) before we are in a position to make anything. We'll likely have an equity edge on the flop on average when we do hit a flush draw and probably an equity deficit on the turn when we don't hit until the river. So I think it's fine if we're going to get a lot of action after the flop (definitely looks promising) but I still don't believe it's a standard no brainer play.

On the plus side, we are in great check/raising position.

[Peter Harris]

you disappoint me, sir [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

supah easy calllllll

[RunDownHouse]

stickdude,

The only street up for debate is the river, in my mind. I'd be so tempted to 3bet, but I think when you get capped you're almost always losing. So two bets going in is ok, but if I could somehow ensure only three without risking four, I'd prefer that over two.

The flop isn't chaos, mayhem, or whatever, its great for your hand. If it had been 3bet, called, and then back to you to close the action, you should have gone ahead and capped yourself.

[stickdude]

[ QUOTE ]
($1 SB I assume)

[/ QUOTE ]

$1.50 Small Blind at Full Tilt. Exactly 1/2 of the big blind.