all-in using the rock

[piggity]

Limit hold'em, playing with the rock.*

Player A is currently in possession of the rock, but is not UTG, and therefore the rock is not in play preflop. He does however enter the pot voluntarily (using his normal chips). Now player A happens to be short-stacked, and has only the rock left by the time the river comes. So he bets the river using the rock. Player B calls, and wins the pot.

Now the question is: Is the rock still a rock, or has it become un-rocked? That is, can player B ethically undo the rock and "convert" it into normal chips, or should he keep it as a rock and post it next time he's UTG?

This happened recently and sparked an endless stream of arguments at the table.

* The rock is a rubber-banded group of chips worth 1 big bet that is taken out of the first large pot from the time it is decided that a rock will enter the game. From that point on, whoever wins a pot with the rock in it is forced to post it when he's UTG. It acts as a forced straddle that loosens up the table considerably. It is considered unethical (though legal) to leave the table with the rock at any point.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Now the question is: Is the rock still a rock, or has it become un-rocked? That is, can player B ethically undo the rock and "convert" it into normal chips, or should he keep it as a rock and post it next time he's UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only a nit doesn't leave it as a rock.

[CrashPat]

I would leave it as a rock, nobody should ever eat the rock.

[ScottHoward]

player A buys the rock back from player b and the game continues as normal?
if player A is broke, then , i dont know. i guess the next pot should generate the owner of the rock.

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
player A buys the rock back from player b and the game continues as normal?
if player A is broke, then , i dont know. i guess the next pot should generate the owner of the rock.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both good suggestions. Unfortunately, player A indeed busted out and left the table. The rest of the table then wanted to re-generate a rock, but player C didn't wish to participate and so the rock was lost forever.

[StevieG]

The player with the rock must straddle, using the rock.

It does not matter how the player got the rock.

C deserves a kick in the nuts.

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now the question is: Is the rock still a rock, or has it become un-rocked? That is, can player B ethically undo the rock and "convert" it into normal chips, or should he keep it as a rock and post it next time he's UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only a nit doesn't leave it as a rock.

[/ QUOTE ]

But there's a difference between being nitty and being unethcial, no? It seems to me that the moment the rock was used as a regular bet, it automatically lost its rockness (that is, player A was responsible for the un-rocking).

[punkass]

The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of the "rock".

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of the "rock".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a huge fan either, but it really does wonders for loosening up a table. Now the 7-2 bounty is something I really hate.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of the "rock".

[/ QUOTE ]

The rock is awesome, you suck.