are players ever just "not smart enough" to move up?

ski · #1 09-14-2006, 01:48 AM

I've been playing mid stakes basically professionally for about a year now.

I read aba's pot about how he basically moved from 200NL to 10K NL in the matter of like 1/2 a year.

I'm wondering what stops players from moving up? Are they not studying correctly? Are they incapable of thinking on the levels that people playing higher stakes play? For you guys that are overrolled for your levels, why don't you move up? Do you feel like you have gotten into a rut and are having a hard time understanding the different thinking at different levels?

I personally have the bankroll for 2000NL but feel I'd get destroyed there and play 400 and 600NL primarily. If it even matters I have a low level genius IQ, but still feel I get genuinely outplayed a lot even at 600NL

PS I have absolutely no clue which forum to post this in..

2461Badugi · #2 09-14-2006, 01:52 AM

In my case, low risk tolerance combined with too much respect for the value of money. In BBV-parlance, I'm a vag. I'm working on it, though.

MyTurn2Raise · #3 09-14-2006, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In my case, low risk tolerance combined with too much respect for the value of money. In BBV-parlance, I'm a vag. I'm working on it, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

this fits me and I'm just not that good at poker, too.

2461Badugi · #4 09-15-2006, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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In my case, low risk tolerance combined with too much respect for the value of money. In BBV-parlance, I'm a vag. I'm working on it, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

this fits me and I'm just not that good at poker, too.

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I sometimes think of you as my holdem good twin. So I'm not all that surprised to hear you agree.

I'm trying to fix it by getting out of holdem entirely and spending more time playing games I'm good at.

WhoIam · #5 09-15-2006, 05:05 AM

I rely on MSNL for most of my income. The highest I play is $400 NL and I really don't have much trouble with it. The reason I don't move up is that I use probably 80% of my winnings for expenses, so my bankroll doesn't increase very quickly. If I were to inherit say, $40k, I don't doubt that I could get up to speed at 5/10 NL within a few weeks.

Barrin6 · #6 09-14-2006, 01:54 AM

Great question.

For the people who are overrolled I think it's because they feel more stress and/or are scared of getting busto. Not everyone's bank roll requirements are 20 buyins or 500BB. They still want to enjoy poker and at the same time make money.

And what makes poker so hard for other people is ignorance, and I'm not saying that to twoplustwo'ers themselves but to the rest of the world. It's really hard for people to sit down and say " I suck, so I better get down and study this game". For the people who do the study the game and still aren't capable of winning, it's analagous to people in school. Not everyone will graduate with a great gpa even if they put thier 100% effort into it.

Everyone is different and that's how life is.

The_Bankroll · #7 09-14-2006, 02:42 AM

I've kind of felt this way lately. moving around between 1/2 and 2/4, I have 13k hands now with a win rate of -0.31BB/100. The problem with 'studying the game' for me is that I really can't figure out where I'm going wrong. I used to play and had 25k hands from 2/4 to 5/10 and was beating the game for about 1.5BB/100. I really don't understand what I'm doing that's so different now than before.

yellowjack · #8 09-14-2006, 02:54 AM

It disappoints me to see a 2p2er believing he has reached the point where he feels like he can no longer move up, because I personally hope to not reach this until playing high stakes.

Have you looked into stoxtrader's videos, cardrunners, and pokerxfactor?

Ali shmali · #9 09-14-2006, 02:58 AM

I think a lot of it is with managing variance and stress. There have been times when I was rolled for 5/10 but I still played 2/4(even though i was beating 2/4 for about 2bb/100). There are even times when i prefer to play 1/2 even though I am rolled for 2/4. The big reason is that my wage would not change very much by moving up because I would cut back on tables. For example I can play 8 tables of 1/2 and pull in $20 to $25 an hour plus any rb or bonuses, or i could play 5 tables of 2/4 and make just a slightly better average wage. The big difference is that I will have noticeably larger swings at the higher stakes. My guess is my wage at 1/2 is similar to some of the people 2 and 3 tabling 5/10 but the difference in variance is night and day.

edit: also the obvious huge difference in bankrolls.

lotus guardian · #10 09-14-2006, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've kind of felt this way lately. moving around between 1/2 and 2/4, I have 13k hands now with a win rate of -0.31BB/100. The problem with 'studying the game' for me is that I really can't figure out where I'm going wrong. I used to play and had 25k hands from 2/4 to 5/10 and was beating the game for about 1.5BB/100. I really don't understand what I'm doing that's so different now than before.

[/ QUOTE ]

13k hands? That's ridiculous. I'm absolutely sure I'm a winning player and I just got out of a 23k hands losing streak. Beating the game for 25k hands also doesn't mean anything. Play more hands!