|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
This is a live 5/10 10-500 game at Tulalip. You have K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB in a game which is very loose and passive preflop. UTG+1 is a nutjob who doesn't raise a lot preflop but very aggressively bets postflop and will fire three times with garbage. On the other hand he is not a complete idiot and will fold fairly good hands if he perceives he is beaten.
Your stack: $500 UTG+1 stack: $1300 Others: not relevant The action so far: Pre-flop. 9 players. UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 4 callers, SB completes, you check. Pot: $66. Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 7 players. SB checks, you check, UTG+1 bets $50. Everyone else folds. What is your line? Extra credit: What if you had $1300 also? Would it make a difference? I think the line I took was reasonable under the circumstance, but I'm curious to see what others think. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
fold. fold.
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
[ QUOTE ]
fold. fold. [/ QUOTE ] Really? I said "he fires three times with crap," but maybe I should be more explicit: You're going to fold top pair HU against a guy who has shown 8-high, J-high, and bottom pair after three rounds of betting in the last 40 minutes? Isn't that a tad bit weak tight, especially with a short-ish stack? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] fold. fold. [/ QUOTE ] Really? [/ QUOTE ]really. some might say folding no hand is a 9way pot is "weaktightt"... those ppl are broke. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
You have to give him some credit for firing into 7 opponents. But you have 2 backdoor draws and it is likely that you are good and almost close the action. You also have the max buy-in and should be thinking about winning a descent pot so that you will be able to make some money later in the session.
This is a great opportunity to give some action in this game. Not that this hand should automatically make it to showdown, but if you choose to take it there, I think it is good for that crowd to see you make a 3 street calldown w/ little so that they will not be so happy to run you out of too many pots. I think it is obvious that you prefer to see if he wants to fire 3 barrels than see if he wants to lay down a descent king in this case. IF you had $1300, It would make some difference. I'd still call, but I would be less likely to diminish a medium stack in that game, so w/o picking up extra outs on the turn I would be less likely to call a descent be there and on the river. It would also matter if I felt as though my stack size would effect how he bets 4th street. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
[ QUOTE ]
You have to give him some credit for firing into 7 opponents. [/ QUOTE ] He's not sensitive to the number of opponents. OK, assume you take the 3 street call-down line and it goes $50, $150, $250? I think I did OK by calling the $50 and $150, becuase this was standard behavior for him. But the $250 river bet was mildly suspicious--usually he would scale back to 1/3 pot or something like that. But he is certainly capable of bluffing for this amount as well. Nevertheless, betting more half the pot like this was a danger signal, and I pondered that for some time. . . . |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
$716 in pot, $250 to call. Tough spot to be in. You cannot call that. Would he bet A9 or QQ like that? Could that be a stone cold 3 St. bluff? w/o many draws on board wouldn't it have to be?
You mentioned that he had been caught 3 times in the last hour or so. Were they all busted draws? How does he perceive you? Have you been laying down a lot. Making big calls? W/o more info, I think he has >KQ, or a set more often than 3/4 and you do not have odds to call. That's a large bet to make in position against a likely made hand, but not so big that it is trying to get a real good hand to fold. It looks like you have KJ. It looks like a value bet to me. BTW, what was the turn card? and the river card? |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, what was the turn card? and the river card? [/ QUOTE ] Oops, my bad...turn and river were offsuit 2 and J. The only big draw coming in is QT. [ QUOTE ] $716 in pot, $250 to call. Tough spot to be in. You cannot call that. Would he bet A9 or QQ like that? Could that be a stone cold 3 St. bluff? w/o many draws on board wouldn't it have to be? [/ QUOTE ] Yep. But keep reading. [ QUOTE ] You mentioned that he had been caught 3 times in the last hour or so. Were they all busted draws? [/ QUOTE ] Nope. Complete air (well except for the bottom pair, but he obviously was not value betting). [ QUOTE ] How does he perceive you? Have you been laying down a lot. Making big calls? [/ QUOTE ] My check-calling was definitely out of place. In fact, I had not check-called even once in several hours. So maybe he knew I was trying to pick him off. [ QUOTE ] W/o more info, I think he has >KQ, or a set more often than 3/4 and you do not have odds to call. That's a large bet to make in position against a likely made hand, but not so big that it is trying to get a real good hand to fold. It looks like you have KJ. It looks like a value bet to me. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, ugh. I have to have the best hand about 35% to make that call good. I think you have to consider, though, that he may be value betting a worse King (he's certainly prone to playing them even at UTG+2). But then the other problem is maybe he outdrew me. I spent about 45 seconds pondering what to do. I attempted to convert all this data into % at the time, and I failed at it. I assigned 30% to a stone bluff, but that may have been too high. I am not sure, though--but he does like to bluff a lot. This is still not enough for a call, though. Then I thought him capable of having a worse K and V-betting a lower pair. So I called. But later I realized I failed to consider that his river bet was larger than standard, so I think I may have made a mistake. But that's OK, we all make them--what's important to me is that I just didn't fundamentally screw up the hand. PS: You seem familiar with the game at Tulalip, so maybe I should just tell you that it was an older guy named Barney. Maybe that would make this whole thing easier. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
I was gonna ask if it was Barney.
Knowing that, I think you are definitely OK peeling on the flop. When he makes it $150 on the turn, I think you need to lay it down. He'll give you the action later when he is definitely worst. I think that if you pick up a draw you will be compensated for those times that you have to lay down your equity to a turn or river bet. And he will pay you off if he has anything reasonable. I know many fine players on the board here think that it was a easy fold on the flop, but I think it is closer. You have a read against a player that you will face again and against a few good players that like to put lots of pressure on players oop who they view as WT. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 5/10 10-500, TPWK vs. nutbar, what is your line?
[ QUOTE ]
OK, assume you take the 3 street call-down line and it goes $50, $150, $250? [/ QUOTE ] Check-calling generally isn't a good strategy for winning in no-limit. You're calling off almost your entire stack on what you perceive might be a bluff? When you flop TPWK (even with some backdoor draws) with 7 players, your standard line should be to check-fold no matter if you have $500 or $1300. Wait for a better spot. Garland |
|
|