What decision do you make here?

Dave Coulier · #1 08-12-2006, 08:31 PM

Ive been playing PLO50 on Hollywood Poker clearing a bonus there, and this hand came up.

I have Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] somewhere around Middle Position.(Note: I rarely raise/reraise at these tables because the one time I tried that I had 5 people go all-in on me for full buy-ins when I had a strong hand.)

A shortstack with half a buyin in LP pots it, which of course results in EVERYONE at the table calling the raise. The flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. It looks like a nice flop for me, but with everyone in the hand with me, Im either WB/WA at this point.

Im not sure how to proceed with this flop because any potsized bet pretty much commits me to the pot, so I check. The preflop raiser moves all in. Im willing to call his all-in at this point since he can't hurt my stack too much if he has me dominated, but then someone in EP moves all in for a full-buyin.

At this point Im not sure what to do. If I had more time to think during the hand I think I would have realized its unlikely EP has Quad Aces or Aces full of Queens. He would most likely try and get an overcall, but then again these players dont exactly do what you normally expect. Even if Im ahead at this moment, I still have to fear trip Aces filling up on me on a latter street.

Ill post what I did and the results later.

joewatch · #2 08-12-2006, 11:19 PM

Let's say you have JJ instead and the flop is AAJ - does that make a difference?

What if you have 33 and the flop is AA3 - what now?

In this QQ situation, if somebody is showing strength ahead of you, your underfull belongs in the muck IMHO.

shpongled · #3 08-13-2006, 12:27 AM

Yeah, going for an overcall here is risky unless you are short-stacked.

However, would you not lead out at the flop? The short stack is going to go all in if nobody bets before him with a wide range of hands in my experience. The person behind him knows this and will raise with any ace, so you really don't know where you're at. But if you bet, and you get raised, then you have a better idea of where you are at.

Dave Coulier · #4 08-13-2006, 01:53 AM

I ended up folding the hand. The original raiser only had a str8 draw on the flop, while the guy who pushed all in on the flop did have the Ace in hand. I would have ended up winning the hand if I had called.

Shpongled: I agree that if I was getting 3:1 on my money then its pretty much a call. Instead I was barely getting 2:1 on my money. Theres always better chances to get my money in down the road.

As for leading out in this hand, the only way Im doing that is if im 100% putting all my money in the pot. I wasn't sure wether I wanted to risk my stack on this hand or not, so I chose to fold and only lose a few bux.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

cnfuzzd · #5 08-13-2006, 02:19 AM

does AQ really push this flop?

peace

john nickle

Dave Coulier · #6 08-13-2006, 02:27 AM

I highly doubt competent players push A/Q on this flop, but competent doesn't enter the equation at Hollywood.

I thought about the hand alot when I tried to go to sleep later, and I could find no reason why A/A or A/Q pushes the flop. I should learn to think faster when facing a decision for my stack next time.

joewatch · #7 08-13-2006, 09:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, going for an overcall here is risky unless you are short-stacked.

However, would you not lead out at the flop? The short stack is going to go all in if nobody bets before him with a wide range of hands in my experience. The person behind him knows this and will raise with any ace, so you really don't know where you're at. But if you bet, and you get raised, then you have a better idea of where you are at.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would lead out in this kind of hand, but he was facing a bet and a raise, which usually means the nuts.

Turns out one guy was a total donk with the str8 draw.

As for the question why AQxx would want to raise here, it would be to build the pot and put pressure on somebody with AKxx. I know plenty of very good winning players who play every nut hand fast. But slowplaying would be an OK play for AQ here, too as there are only 4 overcards to your Q that you are worried about.

RoundTower · #8 08-13-2006, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
However, would you not lead out at the flop? The short stack is going to go all in if nobody bets before him with a wide range of hands in my experience. The person behind him knows this and will raise with any ace, so you really don't know where you're at.

[/ QUOTE ]
This basically sums up why you should check.

TNUC · #9 08-13-2006, 10:23 PM

oh dear... who here actually everr folds this ever? apart from Dave....

shpongled · #10 08-13-2006, 12:02 AM

When I flop an underfull like this I almost always lead out. In my mind this hand is a little stronger than middle set, generally speaking. If a raise puts me all in I'm probably committed. But it depends a lot on my player read.

If the stacks are deep playing this hand for a raise & a reraise is a mistake. But in this situation people are going to put it in with any ace, and some will even do it with straight draws at this level.

As played, with no player read, whether I call depends entirely on my stack size. If going all in will give me 3 to 1 on my money or better I'll probably call. Otherwise I'll get away from the hand.