BOT at Party $20/$40 6-max – Party Doesn’t Seem to Mind (Long)

Catt · #1 08-07-2006, 12:16 PM

BOT at Party $20/$40 6-max – Party Doesn’t Seem to Mind

tl;dr version at bottom of post.

If you frequent BBV you may have already seen my thread from about a week ago (link below). I encountered what I at first believed to be someone trying to game the Party software via the known “skip SB” provision that allows a player to sit out his SB and rejoin the game in the CO without posting – i.e., the player plays 7 hands per orbit for a BB instead of 10 hands an orbit for a BB + SB. I’m not interested in any sort of debate over whether this is acceptable or not – I don’t feel that it is and, after I sat, clicked “Wait for BB” and “Auto-Post Blinds,” I noticed this behavior from the player to my right at a $20/$40 6-max table because I didn’t post and play for 4 orbits. I sent an email to vip@partypoker.com with a complaint and then forwarded the same message to abuse@partypoker.com about ten minutes later.

I ended up mistakenly posting UTG in order to play at the table just about the time it dawned on me that my particular seat was a very profitable one if the player in question continued to skip his SB. Regardless, I find this behavior unacceptable and would have reported him in any event (again – not interested in a discussion as to whether this is “cheating” or even whether it is +EV).

After having posted and played several orbits it was clear that this player was continuing to attempt to utilize the “skip SB” flaw in the Party software. Hilariously, it turns out the “skip SB” flaw doesn’t apparently work on 6-max tables, and the end result was that the player ended up posting his BB, playing one hand, sitting out, and refusing to post in the CO, so that he didn’t play another hand until the BB got back around to him at which point he posted again.

While sitting at the table and awaiting a response from Party, I started a thread in BBV about the situation. I originally titled the thread something like “Quasi-bad beat” since I reported him before I realized what a situation had fallen into my lap, but promptly changed the thread title to “Worst. Cheater. Ever.” That thread is HERE.

Numerous posters opened up the table to watch the hilarity and it quickly became apparent that the player in question had to be a bot with some bad lines of code causing it to only (almost) play when it posted a BB. I played for about two hours, attempting to build a sufficient body of evidence of the bot’s play (particularly to try and decipher some of its post-flop tendencies).

I revisited my BBV thread the next morning, and still not having received a response from the abuse@partypoker.com email, sent another email summarizing the situation to a variety of email addresses available at Party’s website (I couldn’t remember the damn “alerts” mailbox and Party doesn’t advertise it).

[ QUOTE ]
--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxxx
Date: 2006-07-29 13:30
To: abuse@partypoker.com; games@partypoker.com; info@partypoker.com; security@partypoker.com; tech@partypoker.com; vip@partypoker.com
Subject: Cheat / Bot at your tables
.
Dear Sir or Madam,
.
I'm sending this to multiple Party email addresses because I never received a response to my message last night.
.
I sat at Monster Table #1277441 $20/$40 6-Max Limit last night, July 28, around 8:30 PM California, USA time. I clicked "Wait for BB" and "Auto-post Blinds" when I sat rather than posting a BB out of turn. I sat through 4 or 5 orbits without playing before I realized that the player to my immediate right, screenname "ciriprovo," was posting his BB but then sitting out for his SB every time (causing the BB to skip by me). When I realized what was happening, I immediately sent an email to both vip@ and abuse@ reporting that player "ciriprovo" was attempting to exploit the 'skip SB' flaw that existed (and may still exist) for a long time at PartyPoker. Apparently the flaw has been corrected in the software or it never worked in 6-max games, because player "ciriprovo" ended up posting his BB, playing a hand, and then sitting out until the BB got back to him.
.
Despite the fact that his attempt to exploit a known flaw was a complete failure and it harmed him more than anyone (he ended up only playing in the BB), I don't appreciate playing with players who attempt to cheat.
.
I am a member of the 2+2 poker forums, and I posted a message there regarding what was happening. As I continued to play with player "ciriprovo" at Monster table 1277441, and as other 2+2 forum members observed the game, it became apparent (or at least very nearly certain) that player "ciriprovo" was in fact a "bot" or a computer program designed to play the game without human intervention. Player "ciriprovo" never played unless he was the BB or he inadvertently posted a BB from early position; if he inadvertently posted and it was folded to him, he raised; if he encountered a three-bet against his raise after posting, he folded. His post-flop play was extremely structured and rule-based as well. He didn't respond to chat. Please see my thread at the 2+2 forum for a contemporaneous view of commentary from me and others who were observing the game -- here is the link: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post6718352
Note that one commentator indicated that player "ciriprovo" was playing at another table and displaying the same (flawed) rule-based betting and playing actions at the second table as well.
.
I can of course supply hand histories though I am sure you have access to them on your servers.
.
I am disappointed to find (1) a very nearly certain "bot" playing at Party, and at reasonably high limits to boot, and (2) even if not a bot (which I find hard to believe), a player who can repeatedly attempt to exploit a known flaw in Party software (which may have been since corrected) in order to try and play every orbit without posting an SB.
.
I would appreciate receiving a response to this message from a supervisor in the Party security department, appraising me of both the result of any investigation into the circumstances I have described and the explanation for how this sort of behavior can go undetected for a good deal of time (even after I emailed Party last night).
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Sincerely,
.
xxxxxxxxxx
Screenname: xxxxxxxxxx
Accountname: xxxxxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Later that day, I received a not unexpected response:

[ QUOTE ]
alerts@partyaccount.com wrote:
.
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
.
Thank you for contacting us.
.
This message is to acknowledge the receipt of your complaint.
.
We are currently carrying out a full investigation into this matter and we will inform you of our findings at it's conclusion. We request you to provide us 72 hours for us to complete the investigation.
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May we take this opportunity to thank you for helping us to keep our games fair.
.
Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you with your account related questions and suggestions.
.
Sincerely,
.
xxxxxxxxxxx
Investigations Team
alerts@PartyAccount.com

[/ QUOTE ]

I received a duplicate response from another member of the Investigations Team on Sunday morning, and responded that the incident had already been logged and was being investigated (and provided the incident number).

I waited until Thursday afternoon to follow up:

[ QUOTE ]
--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxxx
Date: 2006-08-03 14:34
To: alerts@partyaccount.com
Subject: Re: Kind Attention Required [#5545757]
.
Dear Sir or Madam,
.
Quite a bit more than 72 hours have passed since you acknowledged receipt of my report. I believed (and believe) that player "ciriprovo"'s play characteristics were damning evidence of gross violation of PartyPoker's terms. I have not played at PartyPoker since this incident (though I've played elsewhere) because I am concerned about game integrity -- the idea that bots could be playing at 20/40 6-max tables is quite disturbing.
.
Can you please provide an update as to the progress of the investigation?
.
Thank you,
.
xxxxxxxxxx
account: xxxxxxxxxxx
screename: xxxxxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

I received this response right away:

[ QUOTE ]
alerts@partyaccount.com wrote:
.
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
.
Thank you for contacting us.
.
We have received your complaint and have researched into the account *ciriprovo*. We have also examined the hand histories in order to verify your concern.
.
xxxxxxxxxx, we do understand your frustration about players who 'bluff' and bet or raise, to project a false scenario to other players, even though they do not have the best cards dealt to them. They only do this in an effort to intimidate the other players at the table to fold.
.
Furthermore, the anonymity of online poker players allows them to be more daring (and sometimes even play bad), as they don't have to sit in front of their peers and colleagues and justify calling bets with really bad cards. I can assure you that in the long run; the good players make the money.
.
xxxxxxxxxx, let me also assure you that the players you see at the table are all real players and it is not against the house that you find yourself playing. The easiest way you can convince yourself of this, would be to chat with the other players at the table. We have players from all over the world who access our tables and share the excitement. You would also be able to see their cities displayed. If you were to chat with them, you would be surprised to see how the world converges onto your computer, in your own home, through our tables. And xxxxxxxxxx, I am sure that you would find this surprise to be a pleasant one.
.
The bottom line is that at PartyPoker.com we do not use any form of robots or computer programmed players. All of the players you are playing against are real players. Sometimes you have to go through spells of what seem like horrible beats, but it is just part of the game, and what makes online poker more exciting than live poker.
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The site uses the most sophisticated and state-of-the-art technology to run the games. Our teams constantly monitor the game play in an effort to identify and prevent possibilities of collusion.
.
Our continual commitment to the integrity of the site helps us to create and maintain fair, secure and a spirit filled environment where players enjoy an exciting gaming experience!
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This is what we want for our players, fun you can bet on!
.
Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you with your account related questions and suggestions.
.
Sincerely,
.
xxxxxxxxxxx
Investigations Team
alerts@partyaccount.com

[/ QUOTE ]

I promptly responded:

[ QUOTE ]

From: xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu 3 Aug 2006 12:57:58 –0700 (PDT)
To: alerts@partyaccount.com
Subject: Re: Kind Attention Required [#5545757]
.
Dear Sir or Madam,
.
This is a very disappointing and condescending form response, and I'd ask that you forward this string of emails to a supervisor, please.
.
I did *not* complain about bluffing; I did *not* complain about someone playing badly; I *did* in fact "chat" with the player in question when I first sat and when it became apparent that the player was deliverately skipping the SB every time (the HHs would show this) without a response even though my chat specifically called out his ridiculous "skip sb" approach; and I most certainly did *not* complain about any bad beats. Did you notice that I won more than $1,000 at the table in the short time I was there? Did you notice that my seating position immediately to the left of the player in question offered a huge advantage to me in particular since I *never* had to post the BB but got to play 5 hands per round?
.
If you did in fact review the hand histories, is it your contention that the player in question was deliberately, over the course of 2 hours of play, sitting out his SB and only playing when he posted a BB (i.e., sitting out 5 of every 6 hands on average, and playing only when he posted a blind)? It is difficult to imagine that someone playing at $20/$40 would deliberately adopt as a strategy "I think I will only play a hand if I post I big blind." And it is even more difficult to imagine that the player in question adopted the same approach (only playing the BB) at another table. Did you look at the patterns in his post-flop play?
.
Did you read the 2+2 thread I linked to in my original report? It was comically obvious to all who watched the table that we were watching a bot play (and play pretty horribly mind you). I have no complaints over the tactical approach this player took towards the game -- his presence at the tables, in the near term, is hugely exploitable and very *profitable*. I registered a complaint because it was obvious that the player in question was an automated program or "bot," and I believe that the long-term good of the game requires a no tolerance approach to "bots" or other automated assistance.
.
Seriously, did anyone actually review the hand histories over the course of these two hours of play? Did anyone look at the comments from the knowledgeable and experienced online players that frequent 2+2 that were posted contemporaneously with the activities at this table?
.
Again, please forward this string of emails to a supervisor.
.
Thank you,
.
xxxxxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

With no response, I sent this follow-up email on Saturday:

[ QUOTE ]

From: xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat 5 Aug 2006 09:50:50 –0700 (PDT)
To: alerts@partyaccount.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Kind Attention Required [#5545757]
.
Dear Sir or Madam,
.
Was this string of emails forwarded to a supervisor or ignored?
.
Thank you,
.
xxxxxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess what? No response!

tl;dr version
- Discovered a bot playing at 20/40 6-max
- Invited BBVers to watch it play
- Reported bot to Party, both contemporaneously and the next morning
- Party: “72 hours to investigate”
- I follow-up after 96 hours
- Get response about how I am frustrated by bluffing and bad play
- Ask the email be forwarded to a supervisor
- Party ignores it

disjunction · #2 08-07-2006, 12:26 PM

Party's response is disappointing.

When corresponding with any stranger, you *must* keep it to one paragraph. With short sentences.

cardcounter0 · #3 08-07-2006, 12:29 PM

ENJOY!

and remember, do not give out your password to anyone.

Hopey · #4 08-07-2006, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
xxxxxxxxxx, we do understand your frustration about players who 'bluff' and bet or raise, to project a false scenario to other players, even though they do not have the best cards dealt to them. They only do this in an effort to intimidate the other players at the table to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG...wow. That's so pathetic.

mute · #5 08-07-2006, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
xxxxxxxxxx, we do understand your frustration about players who 'bluff' and bet or raise, to project a false scenario to other players, even though they do not have the best cards dealt to them. They only do this in an effort to intimidate the other players at the table to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG...wow. That's so pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a form reply they send out anytime they receive a mail with the word 'bot' in it.

BTW, I am pretty sure, that the skip SB "ploy" still works. I saw someone doing it 2 days ago at 15/30 6max.

I reported it. Guess what; no reply.

canada_dry · #6 08-17-2006, 02:05 PM

Party is famous for ignoring emails.

CCx · #7 08-17-2006, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I am pretty sure, that the skip SB "ploy" still works. I saw someone doing it 2 days ago at 15/30 6max.

I reported it. Guess what; no reply.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto - party 'assures' me that the player in question is not skipping the SB - i send an email every week, because i see the same player doing it all the time... still nada

Anders · #8 08-17-2006, 02:31 PM

Does anyone else find it hilarious that they called the guy and asked him why he played like he did in those "suspicious" 4 hours? There's no explanation he could have given, I think, that would have been satisfactory. It reminds me of The Big Lebowski.

IS THIS YOUR HOMEWORK LARRY

...and then they smash up the car.

The only way this would be more appropriate would be if they closed the wrong account by mistake. I wouldn't be shocked if that happened.

DuderinoAB · #9 08-17-2006, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else find it hilarious that they called the guy and asked him why he played like he did in those "suspicious" 4 hours? There's no explanation he could have given, I think, that would have been satisfactory. It reminds me of The Big Lebowski.

IS THIS YOUR HOMEWORK LARRY

...and then they smash up the car.

The only way this would be more appropriate would be if they closed the wrong account by mistake. I wouldn't be shocked if that happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what happens Larry

DuderinoAB · #10 08-17-2006, 02:35 PM

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Party Pokah!