Lead or c/r with relative position

[Hattifnatt]

Situations like this example have been up lately a few times in MSNL , and it seems like most players there (and also Sklansky in his new book) prefer a c/r. Therefor I am intrested to see how you HSNL players look at this.

I definitely think leading is superior because all other lines show so much strength. One of the downside of course is that a c/r (or c/c) might get a continuation bet in and maybe a call or two or a raise in between.

The only time I prefer the c/r is if I or the PFR is like 50bbs deep.

Lets say for example:

What is your play here in general?

$1000 stacks

Party 5/10 6-handed

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises to 40, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls

Flop: ($165, 4 players) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero..?

Comments on the subject are appreciated, as well as maybe some circumstances that change your standard option to the other one, for example flop structures or player types involved.

[MDMA]

So very player dependant; I hate the c/r though (almost never do that), but I'm definately c/c:ing a fair amount here.

How I play here has much to do with the players tendencies to fire 3-barrels etc.

Against bad/non-thinking (preferably not aggro enough to fire away 3-barrels) players it is just fine leading away, but good ones will realize if you overdo this since the board is so dry.

I like a c/c, hoping that turn tours out to be a somewhat connected card and a backdoorflushdraw, so that I can lead turn and represent a pair that turned into a combodraw which I opted not to c/r. This will make player raise you w/ both good and bad hands alike thinking you have exactly what you represent, which is of course a good result.

Against players 3-barreling alot I might just c/c 2 streets occasionally/from time to time, and c/r river obv depending on how turn/river turned out.

[pocketjesuits]

I've been doing alot of thinking about three-handed pots with a preflop raiser you are out of position against. Position is of course only one consideration in deciding whether to check or lead with a strong hand, but I believe preference should be given in something like this order:

LEAD
1) Hero - Caller - PFraiser
2) Hero - PFraiser - Caller (above)
3) Caller - Hero - PFraiser (above)
CHECK

This is assuming that our PF raiser is aggressive and the caller is solid.

Conversely, when leading with draws and marginal hands positional considerations are reversed.

[shootaa]

player dependent though. if you have someone who is going to raise us here thinking we've have a marginal hand or that we're playing weak and would automatically lay down most one pair hands. then i would bet, get raised, call prb and lead the turn. if he's cbetting 100% of the time, i would cc and hope a good double barrel card falls, if it does, i might check again, if not, i would usu lead the turn i think (again player dependent, but probably less so since by this point in the hand)

[MDMA]

Actually I thought this hand was with only two or max three players. Three barreling doesn't really become much of an option/issue when it's 4 to the flop, since PFR generally isn't betting missed into 3 guys, at least not when two guys haven't acted yet.

[pocketjesuits]

I also misread the post and thought it was three-handed. That pretty much makes my post meaningless.

The more players the more I would tend to lead, for obvious reasons:
1) greater possibility someone has a strong second best hand
2) greater possibility a straight draw is out there
3) lesser possibility of the preflop raiser betting for you when he misses the flop

[Nielsio]

Oh man, it depends on so many things. Right now we know nothing of either three players and your history at the table.

Against standard loose/overplaying players, check-raising the field seems good; as the raiser is to your immediate left.

[msu202020]

if I am against a bad player, I like to check raise. If I am against a solid player, I like to lead.

[fslexcduck]

checking with the intention of raising is worlds different than checking with the intention of calling.

[wdead]

leading this flop looks pretty strong to me...