KK in trouble?

Barry · #1 08-05-2006, 08:02 PM

Hand 1

20/40 at FW's typical game, Machine Gun Tommy (MGT) or Tommy Ears to others is to my right. Other player is a younger guy (YG)who is getting a little tired of Tommy's aggroness and my playing back at him since I moved over from a must move game a little while before.

YG raises UTG, folded to MGT in the SB and he makes it 3 bets, I look and find KK and 4 bet it, a cap. YG asks if he can raise again and is sad when told no.

Flop is Q74, MTG checks, I bet, YG raises, MGT c/r 3-bets, I think for a second and make it 4 bets, and they both call.

Turn is a 6 and MGT leads out, action is on me...

Hand 2

Different game, villians are another loose/weak but white hot kid and was getting cocky because of it and poster SleepyJoe.

Kid raises somewhere in EP, I make it 3 bets w/ KK in MP and Joe makes it 4 bets in the CO or button, we all call.

Flop is 8 high checked to Joe and he bets, we both call.

Turn is also an 8, checked to Joe and he bets and the kid now c/r's, action is on me...

dark_horse · #2 08-05-2006, 08:49 PM

Hand 1 - I think UTG has aces and SB flopped a set of queens. I'd try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. I wouldn't have 3bet the flop. If you wound up just calling then you'd have a better idea where you stood if UTG and SB keep raising, and you could possibly get off your kings at some point. If you think UTG is capable of putting on an act when he asked if he could put in a 4th raise, then you might feel a bit better about your hand. It's possible one of them has AQ, but the fact that UTG is getting sick of your friends aggressiveness doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he raised UTG and then tried to raise a reraise and a cap.

Hand 2 - You're good. I'd 3bet the turn.

andyfox · #3 08-06-2006, 12:45 AM

Hand 1:
"If you wound up just calling then you'd have a better idea where you stood"

But he capped and now MGT bets the turn. Had he let YG cap I doubt the action would have been any different.

That said, I think I'd have to let the kings go here. I made a mistake in a similar spot last week, I capped the flop with aces and now the first player to act bet the turn into three opponents. I suppose it's possible Barry is good for half the pot here, especially if MGT is a maniac, but it's more likely he's in third place.

Barry · #4 08-06-2006, 01:14 AM

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I wouldn't have 3bet the flop. If you wound up just calling then you'd have a better idea where you stood if UTG and SB keep raising, and you could possibly get off your kings at some point.

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What are you suggesting? Call the flop c/r 3-bet? What if YG caps and MGT calls, do you want me to fold or call the 4th bet? Is it more important to know what YG or MGT does here? If it's not clear MGT and I know and respect each others games. So I want MGT to react to my bets, not YG.

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If you think UTG is capable of putting on an act when he asked if he could put in a 4th raise, then you might feel a bit better about your hand.

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No, he wasn't nearly that sophisticated.

Bill King · #5 08-07-2006, 02:36 AM

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I wouldn't have 3bet the flop. If you wound up just calling then you'd have a better idea where you stood if UTG and SB keep raising, and you could possibly get off your kings at some point.

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What are you suggesting? Call the flop c/r 3-bet? What if YG caps and MGT calls, do you want me to fold or call the 4th bet? Is it more important to know what YG or MGT does here? If it's not clear MGT and I know and respect each others games. So I want MGT to react to my bets, not YG.

[ QUOTE ]
If you think UTG is capable of putting on an act when he asked if he could put in a 4th raise, then you might feel a bit better about your hand.

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No, he wasn't nearly that sophisticated.

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tommy is certainly capable of playing AQ this way, a set or a draw.. most people dont understand who it is thats why it looks so "clear" to them. tommy is capable if firing like a maniac if he feels someone is weak, so he is very capable of taking this action on the flop and when Barry shows strength on the turn in reaction to YG's aggression.. you must give tommy credit for a big hand, because he knows he is going to need a hand worthy of showdown value.

he plays like a maniac, but only against correct types of opponents. i have seen that kid make monster laydowns (some were kind of close calls) and ive seen him jam with air, but in this spot.. hes too smart to not have AA or QQ especially against Barry.

i love really looking into hands that MTG plays when there is an opponent like me or barry or somebody he respects involved b/c he almost always has the best hand when he does play with them. but take a total random opponent and he'll play a draw like its the nuts.

i think you played it fine laying down here barry especially given your read of the YG. tommy isnt coming after you or trying to make a huge bluff against you pretty much ever especially multi-way.

jba · #6 08-08-2006, 12:06 PM

there are too many guys named tommy in this game. I have no idea who you're talking about. I thought tommy ears was the old buy with really big ears? but there's a young guy named tommy with bigger than average ears too, so who knows.

hand 1 I dont think you have much of a choice but to fold the turn. you might be third best here, I think it's not unlikely that the turn gets raised behind you.

hand 2 is kind of the same situation IMO. another parlay that EP guy doesn't have an 8 and button doesn't have AA.

Barry · #7 08-08-2006, 09:04 PM

This Tommy is young and hyperaggressive. He'll either have a mountain of chips or none. The older fellow with big ears is none other than the "famous" Norman.

party36master · #8 08-08-2006, 09:15 PM

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he plays like a maniac, but only against correct types of opponents. i have seen that kid make monster laydowns (some were kind of close calls)

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Some of his "monster laydowns" aren't very good. See my other thread.

Hobbs. · #9 08-08-2006, 09:19 PM

MGT spews against me all the time.

Bill King · #10 08-10-2006, 09:56 AM

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he plays like a maniac, but only against correct types of opponents. i have seen that kid make monster laydowns (some were kind of close calls)

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Some of his "monster laydowns" aren't very good. See my other thread.

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yes, but some of them are very good and are well thought out. trust me, that kid doesn't like laying down many hands, but when he lays them down it usually has a purpose, regardless of immediate impact/win rate