TP no kicker + BDFD, call flop?

[Ampelmann]

I haven't played many hands, but the table seemed pretty loose (this hand is an indication for that). The only player I know to be somewhat decent is the CO (and he folds anyway).

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero ?

I have TP, great. It's not impossible that someone has me outkicked (4.5 outs for me) and that someone has a straight (1.5 outs) or several might be on straight draws (bad reverse implied odds). Even if I have the best hand and nobody has a OESD, many overcards can come (bad reverse implied odds). However, the pot is huge (12 SB) and I close the action.

Without the backdoor draw I think I'd fold, but here?

[kerowo]

Pretty close but I think it's a peal, should be pretty easy to get away from if the turn isn't a big club or a 3.

[Str8Fish]

you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair?

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere around never. But, you're getting 12:1 to try and improve it...that's almost enough to draw to just the 3s, alone.

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there is one kicker you beat on a somewhat coordinated board? Granted not much aggression shown but how often do you think this holds up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere around never. But, you're getting 12:1 to try and improve it...that's almost enough to draw to just the 3s, alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I agree it's a call. I wouldn't if it was two back to me though.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, I agree it's a call. I wouldn't if it was two back to me though.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were 2 back to you a) you wouldn't be getting 12:1, b) you wouldn't be closing the action, and c) you'd be sure you didn't have the best hand. That's a clear fold.

[Dustangel]

BB can bet with any pair, set or straight. After that, everyone will start thinking along the lines of "ooh, 8:1" etc. If the table is loose, all sorts of Axs will call. So I think TP will hold here often enough to warrant a call.

[Ampelmann]

[ QUOTE ]
you call even without the bdfd. Why would you fold top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it's not unlikely that I'm behind already, either against a better T or a str8 (or even 97), and there are tons of cards that will kill me if I'm ahead (or that at least would give me a hard time to continue).

Against such a big field a weak TP with no kicker wins almost never. I'm sure it wins less than 8% of the time.

[Str8Fish]

I was saying that you were thinking of folding the flop with the fantastic pot odds to two pair or trips on the turn? I wouldn't ever fold in this situation.