the whole middle east thing...

xpokerx · #1 07-19-2006, 03:23 PM

...has to be understood in this context.

the terrorists/radical islamic jihadist/islamofascists ,whatever you want to call them, have a stated and defined goal. they want to destroy israel and the west.

they want to kill you, and there is nothing you can say or do to change their mind. if you can understand that you can START to figure out what needs to be done about this issue.

as far as i can see we only have two choices in how to procede from here. one choice is terrible, the other is worse.

Indiana · #2 07-19-2006, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...has to be understood in this context.

the terrorists/radical islamic jihadist/islamofascists ,whatever you want to call them, have a stated and defined goal. they want to destroy israel and the west.

they want to kill you, and there is nothing you can say or do to change their mind. if you can understand that you can START to figure out what needs to be done about this issue.

as far as i can see we only have two choices in how to procede from here. one choice is terrible, the other is worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

man, have u ever met someone from Iran? Iranians are about the most hospitable people I've ever met. I don't buy into this theory that they all want to destroy us. Its just not true. These hezbolla guys are the extreme group. Most muslims are nothing like that. I just asked some of my Arab friends at lunch about all this today and all of them said that they don't hate Jews at all.

This fighting has gone on all of my life and all of my parent's lives and it will not likely end in our lifetimes. Both sides of the conflict want something that is unattainable.

Indy

xpokerx · #3 07-19-2006, 03:33 PM

can you read?

i never said that this was a problem with the iranian people. i actually specifically went out of my way to avoid including the common citizens of that nation in my point.

my point is that its the EXTREME groups that we have to deal with. unfortunately they have power in iran and syria and north korea. the problem is that they are not rational actors. they would not care if they died so long as we did as well.

please don't put words into my mouth. i NEVER intended to besmearch the people of the middle east. the problem lies with the extremists.

derosnec · #4 07-19-2006, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
they are not rational actors.

[/ QUOTE ]

i love this argument. make your enemies seem crazy. easier to hate them then and justify your beliefs.

xpokerx · #5 07-19-2006, 03:42 PM

maybe thats not the best choice of words/phrases.

how is this.

these people do not value life in the same way that westerners do. thus, they think taking your life with theirs is a worthwhile trade. they dont care if they die, so long as you die.

tolbiny · #6 07-19-2006, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
these people do not value life in the same way that westerners do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? When did we (westerners) turn this corner and go from Indian mass murdering, fire/atomic bombing, starving the Irish, killing half a million vietnemise, funding both sides of a war in an effort to drag it out as long as possible, starting a war on false pretenses, become so enlightened that we can claim we value human life so much more than people who don't live in the west?

thetruest · #7 07-19-2006, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
maybe thats not the best choice of words/phrases.

how is this.

these people do not value life in the same way that westerners do. thus, they think taking your life with theirs is a worthwhile trade. they dont care if they die, so long as you die.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you retarded? You say you're talking about 'extreme' groups and that you didn't mean to 'besmearch' the Iranian people, yet you keep putting it on a 'west' or 'westerners' or 'east' thing. You sound like a troll.

tolbiny · #8 07-19-2006, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
these people do not value life in the same way that westerners do. thus, they think taking your life with theirs is a worthwhile trade. they dont care if they die, so long as you die.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this that much different from a "give me liberty or give me death" apprach to life?

Indiana · #9 07-19-2006, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
can you read?

i never said that this was a problem with the iranian people. i actually specifically went out of my way to avoid including the common citizens of that nation in my point.

my point is that its the EXTREME groups that we have to deal with. unfortunately they have power in iran and syria and north korea. the problem is that they are not rational actors. they would not care if they died so long as we did as well.

please don't put words into my mouth. i NEVER intended to besmearch the people of the middle east. the problem lies with the extremists.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I can read but ur post wreeks of anti-arabic sentiment and calls for the west to get involved in order to deter a small and weak extreme group in the middle east. My post is an attempt to derail your point and change the subject a little to say that muslims are our brothers too and we should be very cautious when making posts that call us to arms against them.

Indy

in48092 · #10 07-19-2006, 03:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my point is that its the EXTREME groups that we have to deal with. unfortunately they have power in iran and syria and north korea. the problem is that they are not rational actors. they would not care if they died so long as we did as well.

[/ QUOTE ] this statement shows a lack of understanding about what motivates these groups. For starters, Syria. you state these governments act as they do because "dont care if they die as long as we do to." The syrian government is secular. they are not religious maniacs. there moves are calculated. they are performed not to destroy the west, but to consolidate their own power and ensure their survival. syria's meddles in lebanons affairs largely to destabilize the growth of democracy their. they do this because they know if democracy flourisheds their, syrians will take note, and start to challenge the reform averse regime. htis is not to say they are good people. htey're not. they just aren't "extremists" and you misunderstand their motivations.
Also, you are mistaken if you think that hizballah strives for "destruction of the west" they don't. they also are trying to consolidate their power in lebanon, while appeasing the hands that feed them, iran and syria. This latest hizballah attack shifted G8 focus away from iran's nuclear program, and towards this crisis. the iranians have consistently pwned us over the last 27 years. pretty smooth operating for "irrational" people. once again, bad guys, but maybe not as irrational as you think.