HIV/AIDS

[FredBoots]

So have any of you looked into HIV/AIDS? I think all of us remember the fear when AIDS was first discovered in the 80s. I heard of a guy in my town committing suicide after finding out he was HIV positive.

Anyway, the more I read about it, the more it looks like this was a huge hoax. For example, why aren’t all prostitutes dead? Why has the number of people who are HIV positive remained at 1 million for over 25 year (in the US)? Why has no health care worker ever gotten AIDS from a needle stick but 1500/year get hepatitis? Did you know that it was determined that Kaposi’s Sarcoma (the disease that Tom Hanks had in Philadelphia) cannot be caused by HIV?

Anyway, I find this subject fascinating precisely because no one talks about it, or seems to know anything about it beyond sound-bites from celebrities.

[Nielsio]

Yeah, I've had the same experience when digging into it. The relation between the virus and the diseases are very unclear. The statistics about the spread of the virus of very weird. The behaviour of the virus in the West and Africa and completely different. You can basically only get it through blood transfusion (or parent child?); through sex it's like 0,5%. You die after 10 years, but somehow it's an epidemic in Africa, even though all children that have it should die from it before they bare children. The virus came out of nowhere in the 80's even though virusses all other virusses have been here for ages and come in waves. The doctor who proclaimed it at first is completely untrustworthy and prescribed the effects of it to a completely different problem before saying it was this virus. etc, etc.

The reason everything is unclear is largely due to government intervention. There are tons and tons of subsidies and medicinal regulation involved with these kind of things, so just like global warming, it's one big cloud of lies and corruption, and finding out the truth is extremely hard (you almost need to medical degree as you can't trust anyone).

[speedfreek]

According to The CDC as of 2002, 57 U.S. healthcare workers were known to have been infected with HIV occupationally. 26 of them went on to develop AIDS.

[vhawk01]

Dont shatter his illusions, speed. Real numbers and actual facts compromise his position.

[FredBoots]

[ QUOTE ]
According to The CDC as of 2002, 57 U.S. healthcare workers were known to have been infected with HIV occupationally. 26 of them went on to develop AIDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, do you understand what AIDS is? It is a list of a few dozen pre-existing diseases (pneumonia, cancer, wasting disease, etc.) that occur in the presence of HIV antibodies . 26 people in 26 years could easily be explained by the natural occurrence of these diseases. 26 is a vanishingly small number.

[ QUOTE ]
My fiance worked in an enormous public hospital in south africa for several years. The HIV rate on admissions there was something horrific (like 70-80%) and she saw many people die as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did your fiance administer HIV antibodies tests? The majority of AIDS cases in Africa (maybe not South Africa) are diagnosed based on symptoms only, so all infection rates and AIDS deaths are estimates.

[ QUOTE ]
Is that true? I thought it was about 400,000. Where do you get your info? Whatever the number is, it's unsurprising if it's fairly stable. It's not getting higher because of limited transmission vectors and safe sex. It's not getting lower because, to paraphrase Phil, people are still having unsafe buttsex. But I don't know that it is stable, back this up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is very difficult to find clear information. Try finding a chart showing how many people are HIV positive by year. Wiki indicates that 1 million are living with HIV in the US. Here’s a link that indicates in 1989, there were 1 million with HIV.

It’s surprising that it’s stable. HIV is supposed to be a “new” virus, and new viruses always follow the same bell-shaped infection rate: exponential growth until natural immunity kicks in, and then rapid decline. A constant number of people living with HIV indicate HIV is not the cause of AIDS.

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Why has no health care worker ever gotten AIDS from a needle stick but 1500/year get hepatitis?

[ QUOTE ]
No health care worker has ever gotten HIV from a needle?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very interesting. I said no health care worker ever got AIDS , and you say HIV. This indicates the level of confusion of the issue. But yes, I guess technically 1/year has gotten AIDS from needle-sticks.

[ QUOTE ]
No one talks about it? Where do you live? Who's your friend?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um… looking something up on the internet is not “talking” about it. When I talk to people about AIDS, most have very little understanding about what it is, who gets infected, etc. Most are mildly worried that Africa’s population is going to die out, but happy that we’ve controlled it here through AZT.

Lastly, do you know of any other disease that reports it’s deaths as a cumulative total? I find that weird.

[Rduke55]

Have you visited the CDC's website at all?

[speedfreek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to The CDC as of 2002, 57 U.S. healthcare workers were known to have been infected with HIV occupationally. 26 of them went on to develop AIDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, do you understand what AIDS is? It is a list of a few dozen pre-existing diseases (pneumonia, cancer, wasting disease, etc.) that occur in the presence of HIV antibodies . 26 people in 26 years could easily be explained by the natural occurrence of these diseases. 26 is a vanishingly small number.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I understand what AIDS is. Acquired Immunity Deficiency Syndrome, and it is a complication of HIV (Human Immuno Virus). People die from AIDS related illnesses, not AIDS itself. It's like the chances of you getting those diseases are normally 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 (I don't know) but if you have HIV, your chances are more like 1 in 3.

Of the 57 healthcare workers that were exposed to, and contracted HIV, 26 went on to develop AIDS.

"Why has no health care worker ever gotten AIDS from a needle stick but 1500/year get hepatitis?"

I don't think anyone gets AIDS from a needle stick. They get HIV. 26 have gone on to develop AIDS from HIV exposure at work. A little more than "no healthcare worker ever". But you are correct, you don't catch AIDS, you catch HIV and then may develop AIDS.

As for women with AIDS, according to data from 33 U.S. states, in 2004 there were 42,514 people who went on to develop AIDS from HIV, of which 27% were women. (From the CDC again).

[vhawk01]

And HIV is a far more difficult virus to catch than hepatitis is. And hepatitis is far more common. Its really no surprise to me that health-care workers would contract hepatitis (in what form?) far more frequently than they would HIV. Is that really your contention, that they should be even? Or just that they should be closer to even? What is the incidence of each, and the ease of transmission of each? That might clear that one up for you. And thats, of course, assuming your numbers are legit.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
According to The CDC as of 2002, 57 U.S. healthcare workers were known to have been infected with HIV occupationally. 26 of them went on to develop AIDS.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, do you understand what AIDS is? It is a list of a few dozen pre-existing diseases (pneumonia, cancer, wasting disease, etc.) that occur in the presence of HIV antibodies . 26 people in 26 years could easily be explained by the natural occurrence of these diseases. 26 is a vanishingly small number.

[ QUOTE ]
My fiance worked in an enormous public hospital in south africa for several years. The HIV rate on admissions there was something horrific (like 70-80%) and she saw many people die as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did your fiance administer HIV antibodies tests? The majority of AIDS cases in Africa (maybe not South Africa) are diagnosed based on symptoms only, so all infection rates and AIDS deaths are estimates.

[ QUOTE ]
Is that true? I thought it was about 400,000. Where do you get your info? Whatever the number is, it's unsurprising if it's fairly stable. It's not getting higher because of limited transmission vectors and safe sex. It's not getting lower because, to paraphrase Phil, people are still having unsafe buttsex. But I don't know that it is stable, back this up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is very difficult to find clear information. Try finding a chart showing how many people are HIV positive by year. Wiki indicates that 1 million are living with HIV in the US. Here’s a link that indicates in 1989, there were 1 million with HIV.

It’s surprising that it’s stable. HIV is supposed to be a “new” virus, and new viruses always follow the same bell-shaped infection rate: exponential growth until natural immunity kicks in, and then rapid decline. A constant number of people living with HIV indicate HIV is not the cause of AIDS.

[ QUOTE ]
Why has no health care worker ever gotten AIDS from a needle stick but 1500/year get hepatitis?

[ QUOTE ]
No health care worker has ever gotten HIV from a needle?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very interesting. I said no health care worker ever got AIDS , and you say HIV. This indicates the level of confusion of the issue. But yes, I guess technically 1/year has gotten AIDS from needle-sticks.

[ QUOTE ]
No one talks about it? Where do you live? Who's your friend?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um… looking something up on the internet is not “talking” about it. When I talk to people about AIDS, most have very little understanding about what it is, who gets infected, etc. Most are mildly worried that Africa’s population is going to die out, but happy that we’ve controlled it here through AZT.

Lastly, do you know of any other disease that reports it’s deaths as a cumulative total? I find that weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its funny that you harp on him for misusing HIV and AIDS and yet in your OP you mentioned that no health-care workers get AIDS from a needle-stick. I assume you mean that none have gotten HIV? Or do you mean that many get HIV, but none of these develop into AIDS? I mean...large numbers of people get HIV and take a really long time to develop into AIDS...some never do.

[vhawk01]

Ah, found what I was looking for. The average transmission rate following a cutaneous puncture from an infected patient is .3% for HIV, and only .09% for mucous membrane transmission. These numbers for hepatitis B are 6-24%, and for hepatitis C 1-10%. I think that covers the majority of your discrepancy.

There are also about 1.5 million people who have hep-B and about 4 million who have hep-C. So, someone who is better at math than me, feel free to add those numbers up and tell me what the discrepancy should be, based on random chance, between HIV contraction and hep contraction for health care workers.