wtf, a hand?

Fallen Hero · #1 07-15-2006, 06:58 AM

I called pf ready with the intention of leading any flop. (BTW, I know the bet isn't strong, but it's 2/3 and it's perfectly normal for me to lead for 2/3 with hand in this spot, still don't like it?). Turns out I actually flop a hand.

Villain is 30/15/8 after 80 hands and he was playing fast.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($172.70)
Hero ($111.95)
Button ($132.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $6, Button raises to $15, Hero calls $9.

Turn: ($38.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Ok, thoughts?

shootaa · #2 07-15-2006, 07:14 AM

bet ~$24 here... get some value outta that, esp if he's going atw w/ mediocre hands like u say

goofyballer · #3 07-15-2006, 07:42 AM

Is Button superaggro and raising a wide range on the flop, or does he likely have something decent to raise there?

I either want to lead for about $12 (oh please let me see a cheap river card with my A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or T9o!) to induce a raise, or c/r. I really think a strong value bet wastes the "disguise" your hand has after betting your FD on the flop; he probably doesn't think that diamond hit you, but his hand definitely shrivels up if you fire 2/3+ pot out there on that card.

Let flaming for FPS commence. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

FeNeF · #4 07-15-2006, 08:15 AM

Villian has 8 AF, and you showed weakness on the flop.. how about c/r AI?

Poker Fool · #5 07-15-2006, 08:31 AM

Calling villians raise on the flop might have set some alarm bells ringing on the chances of a flush draw.

The check raise all in gets whatever villian is prepared to put into the pot with the flush now on the board and no more. He might simply check behind.

I think I bet $25 here on the turn.
It is still kind of weak and villian might be keen to cut off your draw right now.
He might now have a draw to the flush himself and will call, or raise on the strength of that.

He might have been bluffing the flop and you are getting no more money out of him whatever you do.

xwillience · #6 07-15-2006, 08:47 AM

i think a smaller bet on the turn is right. a C/RAI is bad though. it really minimizes the chances of getting called.

I was thinking maybe a c/c and then leading the river but this is really player dependent. with an AF of 8 i tend to think hes not going to check the turn through so a small bet and a raise builds a bigger pot. maybe try some crap like letting your timer run down or ???

Gelford · #7 07-15-2006, 08:56 AM

Stupid question perhaps, but ...

Is reraising pot on the flop totally hopeless ?? (Flushddraw+2 overs?)

Next Question
If potting the flop after villian raises is a good idea, are we pushing most turns ??

Or is simply pushing AI over his raise on flop a even better idea ??

JackAll · #8 07-15-2006, 11:36 AM

Ummm ... you do realise you only have 1/3 chance of hitting a flush by the river with a draw there OP?

You have some more outs, but really don't want to play the turn OOP when nothing hits. With that in mind, push the flop since You have good FE against aggro's (its part of the forumala that gives you that number =P).

As played, I don't like a C/R-AI on the turn since you dont want FE. I would act as though I am protecting with AA-QQ (since that's what it looks like you have from pf and flop betting) and look like you're keeping the pot small and bet around 20. They will think they can knock you off the hand you are protecting and push or push their set at the show of overpair weakness or stay with their flush draw and call.

I think check/calling the turn sux. The pot stays small as he might check behind, and you can't bet the river for value since he will more likely fold there and be happy he only lost 19BB for (what he thinks is) a good chance to possibly stack you with air on a scary board.

Fallen Hero · #9 07-15-2006, 03:43 PM

shameless bump

aces_dad · #10 07-15-2006, 04:42 PM

FH, is this pf / flop plan something you do often vs a speeding player?

I think c/c is a valid option on the turn as he's quite likely to fire again, and we really don't want to lose him be leading too much on the turn here. If his turn bet is small though, we may have to c/r (don't have to ai) to set up a larger pot on the river.

So I think I c/c a big bet planning to lead river and c/r a small bet.