Facing a CR on a paired board

grafyx · #1 07-12-2006, 01:19 AM

I start this hand top 10 in chips in the 55k.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t400/t800
(Ante: t50)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t69768
UTG+1: t13662
MP1: t45540
MP2: t20678
CO: t7466
Button: t21795
SB: t55405
BB: t46870

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t2000, 6 folds, BB calls t1200 (pot was t3200).

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t4800, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t3200, BB raises to t10400, Hero calls t7200 (pot was t18400).

Ok so a Jack is a more likely holding for villian than something like a 2, however I'm not sure I'm ready to fold an overpair just yet. I think he could make htis move with a smaller pair than QQ, maybe a flush draw or just a bluff.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t25600, 2 players)
BB bets t10400, Hero calls t10400 (pot was t36000).

His bet here on the turn is somewhat small , but still a decent percentage of my stack. I call because I'm a calling station and thats what we do.

If he pushes the river, I guess I have to fold unless a spade or Q hits. If I'm checked to after a spade or Q I will make a value bet, anything else I check behind.

nath · #2 07-12-2006, 01:36 AM

See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

#3 07-12-2006, 08:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Checking on the flop, IMO, will seems to lead to so many more problems than betting it will. If you had AA or KK, then I would agree with you. Would like to discuss this though. For instance, if you check behind on the flop, and an A or K peels on the turn and he leads for 2/3 pot, do you fold? Betting the flop also allows you check behind on the turn, keeping the pot small while potentially extracting more value from hands like 33-TT.

grafyx -

Your play seems pretty fine to me. Often times your call on the flop will freeze him if you are ahead, so you will only have to pay that one bet to find out. I agree you have to call the smallish turn bet given that you have the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Without the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I think this turn decision becomes a lot tougher, but I am leaning towards a fold.

Soulman · #4 07-12-2006, 09:21 AM

Please post results after any discussion is over. I think you'll see a lower PP more often than jacks here, trying to get you to fold your overcards on the flop. The spade on the turn might be enough to give a jack a pause, I'm with Kramer here. This is pretty tough...and I hate to not extract some value from lower PPs.

grafyx · #5 07-12-2006, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please post results after any discussion is over. I think you'll see a lower PP more often than jacks here, trying to get you to fold your overcards on the flop. The spade on the turn might be enough to give a jack a pause, I'm with Kramer here. This is pretty tough...and I hate to not extract some value from lower PPs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The river was a low spade. He check/folded to my bet on the river.

JFJB · #6 07-12-2006, 09:33 AM

Agree with nath. You want to keep the pot small in such a situation. Just Check

Sherman · #7 07-12-2006, 10:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I often find myself checking here too. Okay, so an A or a K on the turn is bad and Kramer is right, it is much easier to check the flop w/AA or KK, but I think this is a situation where we are either way ahead or way behind. No need to make a worse hand fold or expose ourselves to a check/raise from a strong hand.

Requin · #8 07-12-2006, 11:33 AM

Looks good so far, and If he pushes the river, I guess I have to fold unless a spade or Q hits seems fine too.

grafyx · #9 07-12-2006, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nath,

I see your point, it may have been better to check the flop to play a smaller pot, we probably are never going to win a big pot here when we are ahead. I ended up playing a huge pot here without a clear idea where I was in the hand.

registrar · #10 07-12-2006, 09:22 AM

I'm check-calling turn and river. In response to Kramer, if villain is happy to bet an ace or king turn, then I'm probably happy to fold. I'm not sure what there is left that I am beating. If he's betting and underpair or AK after I've called the flop, well all kudos to the man's balls.

I don't see why checking here causes more problems.