What was the biggest mistake made during WWII?

[Andrew Karpinski]

Put yourself in either the position of the axis or the allies. What do you feel was the biggest mistake made, on either side, during the course of the war? The scope of this question is intentionally broad.

My entry for the axis is the German decision to invade Russia. If they were able to focus simply on the battle of Britian it is quite possible that the war could have been won. Fighting a dual front battle made victory nearly impossible.

On the side of the allies I think the french's inability to adapt to modern warfare and inattention to Charles Degaules theories takes the cake.

[El Diablo]

AK,

You are really going out on a limb there with that dual-front choice!

I am going to have to go with the mass gassing of the Jews. That really turned a number of people against Hitler who otherwise might have turned more of a blind eye to things.

[Utah]

Respectfully, who turned against germany for the mass gassing of the jews?

The biggest mistakes were:
Germans: battle of stalingrad
Germans: Fighting 2 fronts
Japan: Failing to surrender early and causing the needless death of millions
Germans: failure to advance at Dunkirk
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[KanMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan actually did not fail to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative. Going into the Pearl Harbor invasion, Japan knew with a successful strike, that they would be able to control the Pacific for 6 full months, with uncertainty looming thereafter. As a matter of fact, Japan did control the Pacific, for almost exactly six months, taking over almost all of Asia, and building a huge perimeter defense. It was their demolition at Midway (where I don't believe they should have even engaged battle in), which lead to their demise.

The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.

The Germans largest mistakes were: 1)their inability to deal with the Allied powers codebreaking abilities (Great Britains was called Ultra I believe, I forget the name of the U.S. codebreakers) and radar capabilities, 2) getting duped by the Allies on D-Day, and 3)committing the majority of their defense on the Western front instead of the East.

1) Codebreaking and radar: the German U-boats were a HUGE threat in the Atlantic Ocean and they could have curtailed the unparalled amount of U.S. production of war supplies being exported to Britain, but the U-Boats were basically snuffed out. Codebreaking also allowed the Allied sources to be prepared for German counterattacks. For instance, Eisenhower caught hold of Hitler's surprize attack in the Battle of Normandy via Ultra, and without getting into specifics, was able to drive the Germans all the way back to the Siegfried Line without a major battle for France.

2) There were two highly likely landing spots for the Allied Forces on D-Day: Normandy and Pas-de-Calais. The Allied created a deception plan, called Operation Fortitude, and it implemented a fictitious army, the First US Army Group (FUSAG) which would land in Pas-de-Calais. They even made the commander of this fictitous plan General Patton. Of course, they leaked this fictitious plan. By January 1944, there was confirmation via Ultra that the Germans had bought into this plan. Rommel believed that the Allies were still going to land in Normandy, but Hitler overrode his objections and placed half of his army in Pas-de-Calais. Therefore, when the Allied forces landed in Normandy, it was only half defended, and by the time Hitler had risen to order the other half of the army to reach Normandy, the Allied forces had gained the beachhead.

3) Finally, Hitler believed that if he was able to crush the American and Brittish forces in the West, that Stalin would crumble in the East and offer Russian surrender. As a result, Hitler moved the majority of his troops to the West and left his Eastern territory severely under defensed. The battle on the Eastern Front was way more intense than that on the West. While the Allied forces did not hate the German forces, the same could not be said for between the Russians and Germans. So while the Western front was more of a civil war (as civil as war can get I suppose) the Eastern front was a slaughterhouse. Almost no P.O.W.'s survived. The Eastern territory was crushed. And Russia would become a national powerhouse threat for the next 30+ years as a result.

[jnalpak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan actually did not fail to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative. Going into the Pearl Harbor invasion, Japan knew with a successful strike, that they would be able to control the Pacific for 6 full months, with uncertainty looming thereafter. As a matter of fact, Japan did control the Pacific, for almost exactly six months, taking over almost all of Asia, and building a huge perimeter defense. It was their demolition at Midway (where I don't believe they should have even engaged battle in), which lead to their demise.

The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.

The Germans largest mistakes were: 1)their inability to deal with the Allied powers codebreaking abilities (Great Britains was called Ultra I believe, I forget the name of the U.S. codebreakers) and radar capabilities, 2) getting duped by the Allies on D-Day, and 3)committing the majority of their defense on the Western front instead of the East.

1) Codebreaking and radar: the German U-boats were a HUGE threat in the Atlantic Ocean and they could have curtailed the unparalled amount of U.S. production of war supplies being exported to Britain, but the U-Boats were basically snuffed out. Codebreaking also allowed the Allied sources to be prepared for German counterattacks. For instance, Eisenhower caught hold of Hitler's surprize attack in the Battle of Normandy via Ultra, and without getting into specifics, was able to drive the Germans all the way back to the Siegfried Line without a major battle for France.

2) There were two highly likely landing spots for the Allied Forces on D-Day: Normandy and Pas-de-Calais. The Allied created a deception plan, called Operation Fortitude, and it implemented a fictitious army, the First US Army Group (FUSAG) which would land in Pas-de-Calais. They even made the commander of this fictitous plan General Patton. Of course, they leaked this fictitious plan. By January 1944, there was confirmation via Ultra that the Germans had bought into this plan. Rommel believed that the Allies were still going to land in Normandy, but Hitler overrode his objections and placed half of his army in Pas-de-Calais. Therefore, when the Allied forces landed in Normandy, it was only half defended, and by the time Hitler had risen to order the other half of the army to reach Normandy, the Allied forces had gained the beachhead.

3) Finally, Hitler believed that if he was able to crush the American and Brittish forces in the West, that Stalin would crumble in the East and offer Russian surrender. As a result, Hitler moved the majority of his troops to the West and left his Eastern territory severely under defensed. The battle on the Eastern Front was way more intense than that on the West. While the Allied forces did not hate the German forces, the same could not be said for between the Russians and Germans. So while the Western front was more of a civil war (as civil as war can get I suppose) the Eastern front was a slaughterhouse. Almost no P.O.W.'s survived. The Eastern territory was crushed. And Russia would become a national powerhouse threat for the next 30+ years as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks, this reminded of why i love history...especially the art of war.

[nvrthnkofagood1]

I havent read all of this thread (sry, its late here), but, at least in Europe, the American arrival would seem the turning point of the war. Now, given that they used Britain as their staging ground initially to attack the mainland, it would appear a large strategic blunder to have stopped at the French seaside when a final push into Britain may have prevented an American invasion.

I dont know if it was a mistake to invade Russia, but, had I been one of Hitler's advisors, I'd have made the point that the Fuhrer need duff us Brits right up, so Eisenhowers' men can never create a double fronted war.

Of course, all of this may not have been possible because of constraints I know little about. I cant really think of any though.

[wpr101]

[ QUOTE ]


The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes their ideologies were much different but Stalin had signed a non agression pact with Hitler. Stalin did not want to fight Germany. Stalin didn't even believe Germany had invaded because he took Hitler's word. Once Germany was like 500 miles in he realized he was getting attacked.

[Andrew Karpinski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes their ideologies were much different but Stalin had signed a non agression pact with Hitler. Stalin did not want to fight Germany. Stalin didn't even believe Germany had invaded because he took Hitler's word. Once Germany was like 500 miles in he realized he was getting attacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough his own spies told Stalin that the Germans were going to invade days before the actual invasion took place. On the day of the attack truck loads of raw goods were going from Russia into Germany. Stalin retired to his dacha for a number of weeks after the invasion where he presumably drank himself comatose because he could not face the truth of what happened.

[KanMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The Germans made numerous mistakes as well. Engaging in battle with Russians, although it can be viewed as a mistake now, was inevitable. The clash of ideology between Totalitarian Hitler and Communist Stalin was enough to cause that altercation. Furthermore, the German population held a deep resentment towards Russians, as evidenced by their gruesome battle and treatment of POWs.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes their ideologies were much different but Stalin had signed a non agression pact with Hitler. Stalin did not want to fight Germany. Stalin didn't even believe Germany had invaded because he took Hitler's word. Once Germany was like 500 miles in he realized he was getting attacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you've pointed out, the Germans initial attack on the Soviet Union (Barbarossa) was a huge success. If Hitler didn't have a man crush on obliterating Stalingrad and Leningrad, the German army would've been in Moscow before the first winter and the invasion would have undoubtedly been a success. Fighting the Soviet Union was inevitable. The fact that Barbarossa had a huge surprise effect even shows that it was a well-timed decision.

[oreopimp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Japan: Failing to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative
Germans: Failing to give up the beachheads in france and launch a counter attack instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan actually did not fail to seize the Pearl Harbor initiative. Going into the Pearl Harbor invasion, Japan knew with a successful strike, that they would be able to control the Pacific for 6 full months, with uncertainty looming thereafter. As a matter of fact, Japan did control the Pacific, for almost exactly six months, taking over almost all of Asia, and building a huge perimeter defense. It was their demolition at Midway (where I don't believe they should have even engaged battle in), which lead to their demise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt say there was uncertainty after. Their plan was brilliant.

1. bomb Pearl Harbor destroying US fleet

2. build bases all over the pacfic, stocking them with plans, troops, etc hence making it almost impossible for the US to successfully "retakeover" because u attack 1 or 2 or 3 bases, the japanese send out immediate back up from other bases. The japanese called this the "Circle..." or "Sphere of something"

3. Control all trade in the pacific, which the US had essentaily been doing and which Japan had been subjigated to.