curtains' hand #12

[The Yugoslavian]

PartyPoker $215 Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2020)
UTG+1 (t3631)
MP1 (t2130)
MP2 (t1816)
CO (t1948)
Button (t4975)
SB (t1580)
BB (t1900)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero raises to t475</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, CO calls t475, <font color="red">Button allin 4975</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

What do most people do with 99 here utg? Given the action what should hero's move be as it gets back around?

Button has gotten that big stack mainly from the previous hand where he called on the button with J8o and flopped the nut str8 vs. tptk. Other than that he hasn't really done too much.

The CO lost some chips in a misplayed blind battle with Btn and then doubled up with JJ vs. AT.

Yugoslav

[z32fanatic]

I don't raise anything here UTG, either shove/fold. Given that I'm calling this because I'm getting nearly 2:1 against a suspected donk.

[Pudge714]

With that read on button you need to call this shove. I would never fold here, Raise t500 is fine shove is fine.

[NoahSD]

I'd shove the first time.

Can someone who thinks a standard raise &gt; folding explain their thought process a bit.

[curtains]

I like to raise some marginalish hands like this here, so I can raise less with AA,KK vs the donks but not totally give away my hand to the better players. Also I think pushing is likely pretty marginal here...I can't remember offhand, but a lot of calculations are moot due to the rare possibility of overcalls, which are much more common with 9 players to act , and do enough to swing a slightly +ev situation into a likely negative one.

[The Yugoslavian]

curtains,

I just fold, [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

But ok....maybe masking ur range so that regulars don't know u have a big hand here is good...I guess....I don't think it matters a ton.

Yugoslav

[cha59]

I normally open shove but what curtains says makes sense if you play against the same observant opponents on a regular basis.

Given the read on the pusher, Id call &amp; expect to be ahead here.

[Irieguy]

I don't love a less-than-push raise here unless you've been pushing a ton and you think it actually gives you a bit more FE than a shove.

If that's not the case, then here's the deal:

You have to call a push once you've put that much of your stack in and the pot is so big. Therefore, you want to widen the pushing ranges of your opponents.

You can limp here and call a single push. If there's a push and an overcall you can fold correctly. This is what I would likely do.

I also think an open-fold is fine here, though I would tend to agree with Curtains that you can probably always open-raise with nines after level 3 and not lose money. Your position and number of players left to act here makes folding reasonable, though.

Irieguy

[curtains]

btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
btw if they all call with the following range:

99+,AQ+

Pushing is +.1 ev, and this ignores the possibility of an overcall by like AQ and KK, which is much more likely with 7 opponents to go through, and may be enough to eliminate that EV edge and turn pushing into a negative play

- if you widen the opponent's calling ranges your EV goes up a little bit


Anyway to be honest its probably fine to move allin, raise some normal amount or to fold. Calling is probbaly not horrible either. Because I never call in this situation ever, I don't consider this to be an option for myself.

For my own game, I still like raising to 450....you get called some amount of the time so that your hand value is quite relevant, also you can sometimes figure out whether to fold to a raise based on the action and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suck at poker but I think the raise you made is the absolute worst way to play this hand. Limping&gt;pushing&gt;folding&gt;&gt;&gt;raising some small amount.

Indy