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#1
06-05-2006, 12:55 PM
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no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
home game. folds to SB, SB completes(400-800 blinds), BB makes it 3000 straight, SB immediately comes back all in for 13,100(not including the 3000 BB raise), so the raise is 10,100. BB thinks for a bit and throws in two blues(1000/e) and a white(100/e) thinking she has made the call. dealer lets her know she is short. She thought the blues were 5000 and decides she doesnt want to call. She never announced call, just threw the incorrect chips in.
it was ruled she could fold, but the 2100 stays in the pot. was that correct? she knew damn well that she had every intention of calling, but when she realized her stack wasnt what she thought it was, realized she didnt want to risk the chips. but she never verballized anything. 
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#2
06-05-2006, 01:24 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
I think this is a call.
you open the game up to much to much angle shooting if you allow her to fold here. If she was misled as to the bet size it would be different, but here she knew exactly what the bet was she was mistaken about her own stack.
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#3
06-05-2006, 01:32 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
I think that the ruling you made was fair. She seems to have legitimately forgot the chip denoms, which can happen in home games.
Did you have posters to display the chip denoms? If you didn't, you should have 2 or 3 on the walls around your poker table for cases just like this.
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#6
06-05-2006, 03:18 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
[ QUOTE ]
In most cardrooms, she must leave what was thrown in. She has an option of folding rather than completing. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds fair to me.
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#7
06-05-2006, 10:35 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
Sounds like she can take her bet back. She made a mistake, thought she had a holy-crapton of chips and then was shown she didn't. She then decided to fold.
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#8
06-06-2006, 09:39 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like she can take her bet back. She made a mistake, thought she had a holy-crapton of chips and then was shown she didn't. She then decided to fold. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. She made a mistake. An honest mistake. I say she should be allowed to take back her bet and fold.
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#9
06-06-2006, 10:24 PM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
[ QUOTE ]
home game. folds to SB, SB completes(400-800 blinds), BB makes it 3000 straight, SB immediately comes back all in for 13,100(not including the 3000 BB raise), so the raise is 10,100. BB thinks for a bit and throws in two blues(1000/e) and a white(100/e) thinking she has made the call. dealer lets her know she is short. She thought the blues were 5000 and decides she doesnt want to call. She never announced call, just threw the incorrect chips in. it was ruled she could fold, but the 2100 stays in the pot. was that correct? she knew damn well that she had every intention of calling, but when she realized her stack wasnt what she thought it was, realized she didnt want to risk the chips. but she never verballized anything. [/ QUOTE ] Tough decision to make. Technically, under either the NL "full bet" or "half bet" rules, her T2200 was NOT a call- she would need at least T5050, under the half bet rule, to force a call. Is either rule in place at the home tourney? However, under the "stop angle shooting" goal, the decision to leave the money in there (based on your description as well, houstonCT) could be a good one. From a home game perspective, being as lenient as some posters have advocated ("honest mistake") also makes sense. Houston, you'd REALLY have to be sure about her "true" intentions to justify the angle-shoot accusation. GIVEN all of that, second-hand, I'd say my decision would be reluctantly- fold and lose the T2100 or complete the call to T10,100.
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#10
06-09-2006, 11:47 AM
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Re: no verbal declaration, whats the rule?
I dont think she was angle shooting by any means. I know she meant to call because she said so, but when she realized she didnt have as big a stack as she thought, she was able to back out of it. By not verbalizing anything, that definitely saved her. She did verbalize that she believed the blue chips were 5000, not 1000, so its obvious her intentions were to call.
No big deal, it was just a strange situation, and our resident know it all, didnt seem to know what should be done or what a casino would do. but it turns out it was a fair ruling. thanks for the replies.
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