More revelations abt atrocities in Iraq

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Balad
The U.S. military told CNN it is investigating an incident in March near Balad in which Iraqi civilians were killed during a U.S. raid. Iraqi police said 11 people were killed in a U.S.-led raid against a suspected al Qaeda in Iraq site, including five children -- the youngest 6 months old -- four women, and two men were killed. The Balad police official told CNN at the time that eyewitnesses claimed that U.S. soldiers kept an entire family in a room before spraying them with bullets randomly.
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U.S. soldiers destroyed the building, the official said.
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Also, the official said U.S. soldiers killed livestock belonging to people in the house.

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[ QUOTE ]
Hamandiya
Military prosecutors plan to file murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges against seven Marines and a Navy corpsman in the shooting death of an Iraqi man in April, a defense lawyer said Thursday.
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The Iraqi man reportedly was dragged from his home [in Hamandiya,] west of Baghdad, and shot. Both the Los Angeles Times and NBC News said troops may have planted an AK-47 and shovel near the body to make it appear the man was an insurgent burying a roadside bomb.
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The men being held at Camp Pendleton served in Iraq with the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment. The highest-ranking among them is a staff sergeant.


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[ QUOTE ]
Haditha
by Molly Ivins
So, Haditha becomes another of the names at which we wince, along with Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and My Lai. Tell you what: Let's not use the "stress of combat" excuse this time. According to neighbors, the girls in the family of Younis Khafif -- the one who kept pleading in English: "I am a friend. I am good" -- were 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1. What are they going to say? "Under stress of combat, we thought the baby was 2"?

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[QuadsOverQuads]

Don't worry, the Republican Internet Warriors Brigade will be here soon, so that we can all know what we're supposed to think.

Until they arrive, please refer to the Party Manual :

Republican Party Manual, Page 25 : Reasons Why Killing Civilians is OK

(1) The victims were foreigners / not white
(2) The victims were heathens / not Evangelical Christians
(3) The victims didn't speak English
(4) The victims might have been Mexican or Liberal
(5) Killing civilians prevents 9/11 attacks
(6) "Troop Morale" requires that mass-murders be covered up
(7) If you don't let soldiers commit crimes with impunity, then you are a Michael-Moore-loving, America-hating, Godless Communist Liberal Moonbat Traitor. Watch your back if you know what's good for you. Or else.

Further NewThink instructions to be delivered shortly by the usual Republican crew.


q/q

[whiskeytown]

[ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, the Republican Internet Warriors Brigade will be here soon, so that we can all know what we're supposed to think.

Until they arrive, please refer to the Party Manual :

Republican Party Manual, Page 25 : Reasons Why Killing Civilians is OK

(1) The victims were foreigners / not white
(2) The victims were heathens / not Evangelical Christians
(3) The victims didn't speak English
(4) The victims might have been Mexican or Liberal
(5) Killing civilians prevents 9/11 attacks
(6) "Troop Morale" requires that mass-murders be covered up
(7) If you don't let soldiers commit crimes with impunity, then you are a Michael-Moore-loving, America-hating, Godless Communist Liberal Moonbat Traitor. Watch your back if you know what's good for you. Or else.

Further NewThink instructions to be delivered shortly by the usual Republican crew.


q/q

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I'll take #2, Alex -

ding, ding, ding - we have a winner.

RB

[Chris Alger]

It's more war on reality. Last night O'Reilly questioned a fellow pro-war scumbag about the limits of what "we know" happened at Haditha. The response was: all we know is that "something bad" happened there and the rest are all unproven allegations. While he's talking, the stock footage shows bodies wrapped in blood-stained carpets on blood-stained floors, blood spatter stains all over the walls. You expected him to say: "it is alleged that there are people in those carpets, and that they somehow got themselves into an unenviable condition, but until the investigations, indictments and convictions have run their course we won't ave any idea."

[Riddick]

I think a good idea here would be to presume the accused are guilty, and then go from there.

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a good idea here would be to presume the accused are guilty, and then go from there.

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Of course not.

The presumption of innocence clearly requires that we deny that any crime occured at all.

To do any less would be "presuming guilt" (right?)

In fact, out of fairness to the accused, I suggest that from now on all murder victims be referred to only as "allegedly dead" until an actual conviction is returned.

"Your honor, please take a look at this photograph of the alleged crime scene. In it, you'll notice the alleged blood spattered on the alleged walls and pooling in an alleged trail leading to the alleged victims who are, it appears, allegedly dead. Of course, we can't be certain this means anything improper occured, and we'd hate to bias our presentation by referring to these blood-soaked bodies as evidence that a murder took place. I mean, who really knows? It could go one way or the other. Uncertainty rules the day."


q/q

[vulturesrow]

Actually most news reports I see usually use the term alleged to decribe people being charged with crimes, even if it seems obvious that they did in fact commit those crimes. Too bad that courtesy isnt afforded to American servicemembers. And for the record, if it turns out they did murder these people, I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad that courtesy isnt afforded to American servicemembers.

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Actually, if you watch ANY news channel, this courtesy IS being extended to them -- to the extreme.

To the point -- literally -- of refusing to even acknowledge that any crime *actually* took place. It may have "allegedly" taken place, but apparantly a crime scene filled with dead bodies covered in blood and wrapped in carpets is not sufficient to establish that something more than an "allegation" happened.

Furthermore, there is a big difference between saying that "a specific person allegedly committed this specific crime" vs. saying that "the act in question is only alleged to have occured at all". The presumption of innocence requires only the former. Politics and defense strategies are what gets you into the zone of the latter.

Toward that end, notice that almost every news organization in the country is taking the latter road, while Republican activists like Riddick suddenly rediscover The Gospel of Presumed Innocence (as rewritten by the Republican National Committee).

[ QUOTE ]
And for the record, if it turns out they did murder these people, I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.

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On that we can certainly agree.

The desire to deny the atrocity in order to preemptively acquit the soldiers involved, however, is a real problem for me, and that's clearly where Riddick is going here.


q/q

[RedBean]

I find it a bit disturbing that some of you guys seem almost excited with this news and the prospect of being able to pound on the Republicans with it for political reasons.

Please tell me that isn't the case, and your mainly concerned about these events as any person should be for what they are.....and not just because you are at odds with the current administration and enjoy the prospect of more ammunition and blame to throw at their political party.

These atrocities, if proven as stated, are absolutely horrific and inexcusable, and those guilty should be punished beyond all imagination, without any hesitation or doubt.

At the same time, however, the atrocities shouldn't be exploited for political purposes.

[Riddick]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a good idea here would be to presume the accused are guilty, and then go from there.


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The desire to deny the atrocity in order to preemptively acquit the soldiers involved, however, is a real problem for me, and that's clearly where Riddick is going here.


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Oh, clearly.