Did I butcher this at all?

La Brujita · #1 06-02-2006, 03:46 AM

Early at the final table of wsop double shootout. No real reads on opponent, other than it looked like he was interested in raising a lot of pots, but later I found out he was a real thorn in my side.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1700)
UTG+1 (t1880)
MP1 (t1400)
Hero (t1640)
MP3 (t1470)
CO (t1470)
Button (t870)
SB (t1590)
BB (t1480)

Preflop: Hero is in MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls t20, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to t100, Hero calls t100, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t80

Flop: (t330) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets t150, Hero raises to t380, UTG folds, MP1 calls t230

Turn: (t1090) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t240, MP1 calls t240

River: (t1570) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t200, MP1 calls t200

Proofrock · #2 06-02-2006, 04:00 AM

what's with the 1/4 pot turn bet and 1/8 pot river bet? that can't be optimal.

yvesaint · #3 06-02-2006, 04:55 AM

i see no need to raise this flop unless you think he'll stack off w/a lower A

Beachman42 · #4 06-02-2006, 08:26 AM

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what's with the 1/4 pot turn bet and 1/8 pot river bet? that can't be optimal.

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Not crazy about the turn bet, but on this board, the riv bet looks like a very good blocking bet. With trips, you really want to show down, but there are possible flush/boat hands against you based upon villian's betting line. I think it is a sound bet here.

AceLuby · #5 06-02-2006, 01:02 PM

First, I would reraise PF, I know a lot of people wouldn't agree w/ this, but I like to be the aggressor w/ this hand and if someone pushes against me I know I'm beat and can lay it down. Calling isn't terrible though.

2nd, I would smooth call the flop. You have TP2K w/ the 2nd nut flush draw, not the best hand, but definitely a hand you would like to see another card with. Plus if you did have a good flush already, would you raise it? Rep the flush.

3rd. The turn bet SUX BALLLLS. You bet 380 postflop and the turn comes and you bet 240? That is a WEAK bet I would have pushed against that bet.

4th. The river bet sux worse. Your bets are supposed to go up, not down as the pot increases. You gave him pot odds on every street w/ less than the nuts. Not a good choice.

My guess is you were played by AK (K of diamonds) and you were called down w/ a better kicker. I think a call on the flop and a 500-800 bet on the turn would have bought the pot.

mlagoo · #6 06-02-2006, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what's with the 1/4 pot turn bet and 1/8 pot river bet? that can't be optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not crazy about the turn bet, but on this board, the riv bet looks like a very good blocking bet. With trips, you really want to show down, but there are possible flush/boat hands against you based upon villian's betting line. I think it is a sound bet here.

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wtf? hero has position. if he wants to showdown he can check.

turn and river bets both suck, and the flop raise sucks too.

mikeJ · #7 06-02-2006, 07:55 AM

I fold PF, could be weak tight tho. I just call down from the flop on, because I hate getting 3 bet w/ the Qd in my hand.

La Brujita · #8 06-02-2006, 01:15 PM

Interested in more thoughts. I don't normally play it like this but I thought it was kind of an intersting hand against an unknown aggressive player.

The only street I really like is the turn which I bet for a free showdown btw.

I didn't want any ace or busted draw putting in a huge river bet so I couldn't just check and get a free showdown.

I was planning to check river blank, but for some reason the third ace mesmerized me.

I can see how this hand looks like it sucks and maybe it does. I don't know if the flop bet is horrible in this specific instance, maybe it is. Same with preflop and river, could be all three streets suck.

Ende · #9 06-02-2006, 01:54 PM

I think there is no way he has a flush here.. you have Qd so in order to have a flush he must've raised to 5x BB from MP1 with KJs or even weaker hands like KT or K9? I think that's highly improbable. And he shouldn't be thinking that you had a made flush for this reason if he had Kd like AceLuby said. So my guess is either he's reluctantly calling with AK(no Kd) because your weak bets letting him to go for the showdown and lose if you did have KQd (the only flush-making hand that i can think of that would call PF 5x raise) OR he's being donkish and calling with smth like Ax or even KK/QQ.

So I think your turn and river bets are very weak, you should be representing flush and would've bet around 450 on the turn and be prepared to move-in on the river. There is a probability that you can get AK fold here and that's the only hand that beats you. You have a nice hand, I think that's one of those many points that you just go for your better odds. You're getting 2,1:1 pot odds while i think he has AK 50% of the time and fold around 30% of the time if you bet heavily and KJ of diamonds only like 5% of the time at most, which makes your hand 60:40 favourite.

Proofrock · #10 06-02-2006, 03:48 PM

Flop: what are you trying to achieve with this raise? It's too small to charge any draws, but just large enough that you'll be compelled to call a push based on the flush draw alone (unless you have some stellar read that he pushes with exactly AxKd). If you're looking to get rid of UTG and slowly pull MP1 in at least bet enough that KxKd doesn't get 4:1 pot odds to call.

Turn: Why exactly are you hoping to get to a cheap showdown, and why would a 1/4 pot turn bet accomplish that? It seems to me that all better hands are going to push now (negating your cheap showdown) and a lot of weaker hands that can still outdraw you will call.

Though you suggested that Villain may have a wide range, given the 5xBB preflop raise and the flop action, you can't figure Villain has a set or a flush here (since you hold Qd and Ad is on the board). Given the board, 2 pair seems unlikely. The only hand you're really concerned about would be AK, and AK is looking for the same cheap showdown you are, so you're unlikely to face a big river bluff from AK.

Personally, with TPGK + second nut flush draw, after i chose to raise the flop and the turn gets checked to me with a less than pot-sized bet left, I'm inclined to get my chips in. I'm not too concerned about being behind here, but if I am Villain is going to raise my weak turn bet anyway. Do you plan to dump your hand to a raise getting 2:1 after inducing a bluff by a weak turn bet?

River: It's checked to you, so this must be a value bet. Villain has t680 left. Just push.