Starting hands (newbie)

[cbloom]

Ok, I know, I did read the FAQ, I did search, I can't find anything. If there's another thread, please point me to it.

If not, I was hoping you guys could just give your opinion on a good starting hand guide for newbies, like "read Ciaffone". I've found a lot of point systems online, do you recommend any of them?

(also, I know, I know, "it depends" on who's in the pot, position, stacks, blah blah blah, I just want something to get started with)

[cbloom]

Like, is the Hutchison system kind of okay? Is there a better guide anywhere?

http://www.thepokerforum.com/omahasystem.htm

[chucky]

Most players here determine their hand play largely by position. So utg-mp1 full wraps/qqxx+. partial wraps and JJxx get much more play mp2 and later. On button some players will play two gappers and other lightly connected hands. Omaha is tough to give a starting hand guide for because there are so many possible hands. Here is an introduction to thinking about starting hands written by ciaffone, <http://pokercoach.us/OMch.htm> .

[chucky]

If you have a hand like qsts9d8d, be careful. Q high flush tends to lose much of the time in a multiway pot. The value for suited cards lower that k suited is mostly in blocking other people's flush draws.

[joewatch]

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If you have a hand like qsts9d8d, be careful. Q high flush tends to lose much of the time in a multiway pot. The value for suited cards lower that k suited is mostly in blocking other people's flush draws.

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Actually, I don't think that is correct. The main value in suited cards is when you are tied for the nuts, but have a redraw to a better hand (in this case, a Q high or 9 high flush). That's when you get to win a big pot.

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you have a hand like qsts9d8d, be careful. Q high flush tends to lose much of the time in a multiway pot. The value for suited cards lower that k suited is mostly in blocking other people's flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I don't think that is correct. The main value in suited cards is when you are tied for the nuts, but have a redraw to a better hand (in this case, a Q high or 9 high flush). That's when you get to win a big pot.

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This may happen sometimes, but usually at the lower limits, you raise and then still get called by the naked better flush draw and the guy with the set and end up a dog going all in 4 way with 15-20% equity.

From an equity point of view, the set and naked nut flush draw are quite correct to get all in on a flop against 2 nut straights, because each will have very near 30% equity. At higher limits where there is some chance a higher naked flush draw may fold (and every suited Ace might not even get played) then this is certainly the value of suited cards.

[RickyG]

you're right... having suited cards without the suited ace is stupid.

[Cooker]

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you're right... having suited cards without the suited ace is stupid.

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I never said anything like that. I hope you are better at Omaha than reading comprehension. I am going to assume you are being sarcastic.

I am trying to get at the point that in multiway pots, which you will usually be playing at the lower limits, no one is going to fold a flopped set or a flopped nut flush draw. If the action stays multway, the FD and set will be correct to get all in on the flop while the 2 straights will be taking the worst of it and will usually drive the action. In this case you wouldn't want to start putting a lot of money in until a safe turn where you may be able to get the naked higher FD and the set to fold or draw with incorrect odds. If the drawing hands fold, you will then have your freeroll, and if they do not, they will be paying too much. If you have it all in on the flop you are taking the worst of it. Suitedness always adds value, but getting the value is not always clear cut.

[Johnny#5]

As you know there are literally hundreds of thousnds of starting hands so a chart is not practical. In general I would say play anything where all 4 cards are coordinated in some way. Hands that can make wrap draws like 4567 or 9TJQ are good hands to play in position. You will often get hands like 3 connectors with a suited ace or a suited ace with a pair, I usually play those too. A lot of people don't advise playing medium pairs because you can get outsetted or make a losing underfull, but that usually doesn't stop me from playing them if they have something else going for them too. At low limits be wary of calling raises with KKxx or QQxx or Axxx hands because these tend to be dominated pretty badly. It's kinda analogous to hold'em in that the best ace crackers are suited wrap hands. Like someone else said these hands don't have much flush value multiway but are very strong heads up against a guy with a marked hand. The strongest hands are obvious ... but be wary of playing AAxx aggressively where xx are crap cards.

Higher pairs can be played for set value (and only for set value) at lower limits from most any position. If you want to be a decent winner at low limits you have to get in there and raise to build some pots b/c if you don't and you flop the joint you will come out hammering and only win a dinky pot when everyone folds. But your raises shouldn't turn over your hand either, so you need to mix it up and not just raise 4 paints or AA or whatever only.

In general try to play hands that can make the nuts, and try to avoid those that can be expensive losers multiway. Big losers are things such as non-nut flushes and weak full houses. Heads-up you don't have to worry about that as much though.

You might want to post what limits you intend to play, as at different limits you will want to play different hands.

[BigSlick75093]

Go buy yourself TJ Cloutier's Championship Omaha book