getting cute with 44

schwza · #1 01-13-2006, 02:20 PM

109. i think we're at around 80 left with 50 pay. villain is kinda aggro pre, but no real reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t6720)
Hero (t7215)
BB (t4212)
UTG (t2660)
UTG+1 (t17610)
UTG+2 (t6988)
MP1 (t13760)
MP2 (t9700)
MP3 (t13526)
CO (t6716)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t800, 5 folds, Hero calls t600, 1 fold.

Flop: (t2000) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets t800, Hero calls t800.

Turn: (t3600) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets t1200, Hero calls t1200.

River: (t6000) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks

NHFunkii · #2 01-13-2006, 02:24 PM

eww. fold preflop, raise the flop, fold to a reraise. Even if you're ahead he's undoubtedly drawing to 6 outs, and at least 9 outs on the turn, plus the possibility of a flush draw

Requin · #3 01-13-2006, 02:32 PM

I've been playing SNGs recently, so maybe I'm more aggro here than I should be, but why is this a fold prelop? BB has 10.5 BB, you have him nicely covered. Isn't this a push?

illini43 · #4 01-13-2006, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB has 10.5 BB, you have him nicely covered. Isn't this a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the BB isn't really the player to worry about in this hand... UTG+2 raised preflop, it didn't get folded around to you in the SB.

I would also fold this preflop. But given the call, a re-raise on the flop seems right here. If you face a call or re-raise, I slow down...

capital K · #5 01-13-2006, 02:41 PM

I think the main point should the calls on the flop and on the turn....Horrible, just horrible.

Sam T. · #6 01-13-2006, 03:03 PM

Am I reading these responses right?

Folding pre-flop is pretty bad. If he were shorter you could make the argument for a fold (no implied odds if you do hit your set), but good lord is folding weak-tight.

Raising pre-flop is also lousy, methinks. If the BB wants to come along, wonderful. If he pushes you're on a decision, but that's down the road a bit. (And probably a lay-down. With a raiser and cold-caller OOP, BB is not going to shove without a strong hand.)

So yes, call.

Flop: Well, other than hitting a set, that's about as good as it gets, clearly seems to be WA/WB - either he's drawing to six outs with his overs, or you're drawing to two outs with your underpair.

Given this situation, the question is how to proceed. The weak flop bet is either a call or raise. Given I wouldn't know how to play a lot of turn cards (essentially Ace-Ten would make me nervous), I'm going to raise this. I realize you are going to knock out someone who is drawing to six outs, but since I have no earthly idea which six those might be, I want to wrap things up sooner rather than later. This is, however, probably the wrong play.

Turn: I guess the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would have been better, but this is still awfully nice. I think I probably bet out here. The pot is already big, and I want to put in a bet while I still have folding equity. If it's raised, I can reevaluate.

River: Yikes. With a bigger stack I put out a blocking bet of 2k, but doing that leaves you in the red if you're raised, so it's no good. (I don't think you can call a raise here.)

Shove? The pot is huge, but you have some good FE, especailly when the flush got there. I imagine you get called by AK-AJ, but hands like TT+ and weaker aces are going to be chary making a call when you say, "Hey, I've got a flush. Do you believe me?"

Checking, though, is also okay. What you do to a bet is a good quesiton.

xdeucesx · #7 01-13-2006, 03:19 PM

Fold??? Damn. Alright, I like the call on the flop and I think I would raise the turn close to 4k. I think villians range is huge here with a lot of marginal holdings.

At first I was thinking to lead the river with a block bet but your only getting called by a better hand. I think its check fold with the situation you were in.

Spee · #8 01-13-2006, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I reading these responses right?

Folding pre-flop is pretty bad. If he were shorter you could make the argument for a fold (no implied odds if you do hit your set), but good lord is folding weak-tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely with your sentiment, Sam.

Also, if I'm playing this hand, then I have to play it "as-if" I'm ahead after that flop and bet into the aggro player.

If the bet size is done well, somewhere between 1/2 pot and full pot, then the aggro player is likely to lay down a non-paired hand, like AK or AQ. If not then he makes a bad call drawing to 6 outs.

Possibly he is holding an overpair, but by betting out you may be able to get a free card on the turn and possibly an opportunity to steal on the river. Depends on your read of the opponent and the opponent's read on you.

Had you been head up with him before?

bowski44 · #9 01-14-2006, 05:54 PM

who says he's gonna call w/ AK or AQ, if anything he's raising you saying " i have a big pair " and you have just gotten bluffed off the best hand.

Dave D · #10 01-13-2006, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Am I reading these responses right?

Folding pre-flop is pretty bad. If he were shorter you could make the argument for a fold (no implied odds if you do hit your set), but good lord is folding weak-tight.

Raising pre-flop is also lousy, methinks. If the BB wants to come along, wonderful. If he pushes you're on a decision, but that's down the road a bit. (And probably a lay-down. With a raiser and cold-caller OOP, BB is not going to shove without a strong hand.)

So yes, call.

Flop: Well, other than hitting a set, that's about as good as it gets, clearly seems to be WA/WB - either he's drawing to six outs with his overs, or you're drawing to two outs with your underpair.

Given this situation, the question is how to proceed. The weak flop bet is either a call or raise. Given I wouldn't know how to play a lot of turn cards (essentially Ace-Ten would make me nervous), I'm going to raise this. I realize you are going to knock out someone who is drawing to six outs, but since I have no earthly idea which six those might be, I want to wrap things up sooner rather than later. This is, however, probably the wrong play.

Turn: I guess the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would have been better, but this is still awfully nice. I think I probably bet out here. The pot is already big, and I want to put in a bet while I still have folding equity. If it's raised, I can reevaluate.

River: Yikes. With a bigger stack I put out a blocking bet of 2k, but doing that leaves you in the red if you're raised, so it's no good. (I don't think you can call a raise here.)

Shove? The pot is huge, but you have some good FE, especailly when the flush got there. I imagine you get called by AK-AJ, but hands like TT+ and weaker aces are going to be chary making a call when you say, "Hey, I've got a flush. Do you believe me?"

Checking, though, is also okay. What you do to a bet is a good quesiton.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree. It's fine in my book to call w/ a lot of things PF when soemone just min raises, you're getting odds. Folding this PF is way weak tight as you are getting odds for the set (implied at the least).

Raise or fold the flop. I agree, it's not getting much better than this, find out where you stand and get out if you get raised.