slowplaying a set for value OK?

Thrakkar · #1 05-13-2006, 06:32 PM

This is a hand from a review where we had different opinions on how to play after the flop. We agree that limping from EP is not a good idea, so there's no need to comment on that. It's the flop action where we disagree, so please give that a second thought!

The opponents were quite loose (that's why I limped from EP by the way).

I put the reasons for my play in white into the text.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, 3 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP3 raises, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

I checked to let the preflop raiser bet and raise him. Since the guy to my left already bet and it got raised I didn't want to face the 2 guys with calling 2 bets. I prefered to keep them in until the next street, have the raiser bet and raise then thus making more money than 3-betting the flop. 3-betting the flop would get me 2 more bets from the opponents that already put 2 bets in but risks losing 2 bets from the guys that have to call 2 more bets and might fold right here. The flop is rainbow so there's no need to protect my hand against a flush draw. 

Turn: (10.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

River: (16.20 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Thanks,
Thomas

V4P · #2 05-13-2006, 06:34 PM

Bet/Raise every opportunity you get

deleteduser · #3 05-13-2006, 06:49 PM

generally i never slowplay however if you wanted to this would be the time to do it i wouldnt say you made THAT much more slowplaying however it is a good opportunity.

Stoo_Pot · #4 05-13-2006, 06:52 PM

Usually it's a bad idea to slow play a set as people are more likely to call flop raises than turn raises, it's cheaper for people to outdraw you, and there's no guarantee someone will bet on the turn. You did make more money by playing this way in this particular hand though.

Before we see the flop action, it might be better to bet out on the flop hoping that the preflop raiser will raise trapping UTG+1 and MP1 for more money. I think you were fortunate in this hand because a lot of players seemed to like their hands and it's not the worrrrst board to slowplay but there are some straight possibilities.

ricoretardo · #5 05-13-2006, 06:50 PM

i would never slow play this. You cannot allow you opponents draw out on you for a cheap price. You said the table was loose too. I would bet the pot on the flop or reraise. Never slow play this.

nomadtla · #6 05-13-2006, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The opponents were quite loose (that's why I limped from EP by the way).

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is the case then I don't mind the limp from EP. I think SSH even says limp all pocket pairs from EP on loose tables. But with that being the case you need to extract value from these loose players when you do hit.

[ QUOTE ]
I checked to let the preflop raiser bet and raise him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given your relative position in relation to him. I think I prefer betting out, hopping he raises trapping all the people in between you and him.

[ QUOTE ]
Since the guy to my left already bet and it got raised I didn't want to face the 2 guys with calling 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not, you planned to c/r the PFR. When the pot gets to you after MP3's raise it is 16SB most players with any part of that board and any draw are gonna pay those 2 bets in a pot this big.

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop would get me 2 more bets from the opponents that already put 2 bets in but risks losing 2 bets from the guys that have to call 2 more bets and might fold right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most loose players will stay. They are more likely to get out when they see a turn raise. Bet now while they will peel the flop with garbage.

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is rainbow so there's no need to protect my hand against a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

True there is no flush draw but there could be inside straight draws that would be calling 2 incorrectly. Anyone with an open-ended straight draw, or a flush draw (if this board had one), is gonna peel this flop anyways.

You have a strong hand and will scare people out by waking up on the turn. They will give you less credit for a set if you just start firing from the flop.

milesdyson · #7 05-13-2006, 07:15 PM

its fine but i think 3betting on the flop is better

Gap23Razor · #8 05-13-2006, 07:16 PM

your way is probably what i would do, defer flop raising with the idea of 3betting the turn...let the villian steam on into the big bet round, and then ambush him with the 3bet...seems the best way to extract maximum value from the hand.

RAHZero · #9 05-13-2006, 07:28 PM

While I don't hate the slowplay, I think 3-betting the flop and ramming on the turn and river is more profitable here. UTG+1 led the flop and MP1 already called 1 bet, so your chances of losing them with a three bet are much less than if they were calling 2 cold w/ no previous action.

Stoo_Pot · #10 05-13-2006, 07:58 PM

Slowplaying lets fish like me suck out on you [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below: 
MP2 has 9h 9s (three of a kind, nines).
Hero has Tc Jc (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB.