Turbo Film Club

[tdarko]

The goal of "Turbo Film Club" is to take two movies similiar in ilk and discuss them. This is where you talk about the similarities and the differences of the two films or what made you like one more than the other.

This thread gives free-range for any and all discussion for both films.

In 1998 two movies came out in the same War genre that were immediately acclaimed, yet they were far from similiar. They were guided by skilled directers and all-star casts and tallied 18 Academy Award Nominations between the two of them. Here are the two movies to be discussed:



IMDB link



IMDB link

Most of you have probably seen these two films. For those that haven't, the goal is to see these by hopefully Monday.

[diebitter]

put me down for SPR for sure! It's about time I watched it, and my wife said she would too!

[ooinsight]

These are interesting choices for comparison for several reasons. First, they focus on different theatres of the war. Second, both are on some level more about the characters than the events. Third, in the case of The Thin Red Line, the film steps well outside the boundaries of stereotypical war movies.

I think the first point is worth noting because there have been relatively few WWII movies about the Pacific theatre (the war with Japan in general). Sure there have been movies about Pearl Harbor but that is pretty much the boundary. In this sense I actually liked TTRL more than SPR. Granted, SPR is a great film with what are considered some of the most realistic combat scenes ever filmed, but it is does not stray too far from the beaten path on WWII movies about the European theatre. I will explain my thinking here more later.

My second point I think is pretty clear cut. Both films spend a lot of time on character development. We are meant to relate to the characters. In SPR this manifests as a series of characters that we (for those in America) could easily imagine running into a daily life, but in a setting so alien they become hardened (or weak and worthless) by the shocking events they are exposed to. In TTRL we are meant to understand why the characters behave the way they do. The heroes are flawed and complicated, rather than simply being shallow and heroic stereotypes of 'the good guys.'

I think the final point applies much more to TTRL than SPR. For SPR, the step outside the traditional stereotypes found in movies about war are still very present. The good guys are the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys. When the captured German is set free what does he do? He does exactly what we would expect, allowing us to accept that the line seperating the good from the bad is constant and real.

This is exactly where The Thin Red Line stands out as exceptional. When I first saw this movie in theatres I was bored to tears. It wasn't until several years later, after watching it again, that I came to appreciate it. TTRL does not make a clear distinction between good and bad so much as between war and peace. From the early scenes on the serene African coastal village we can see the pain and confusion caused by war. The Japanese soldiers are not demonized, but rather portrayed as human beings with the same fears and hopes as the American soldiers. Traditionally, war films focussing on the Pacific theatre have portrayed the Japanese as savage and sub-human, a clear departure from the portrayal of the German enemy in WWII films. The Germans are portrayed more as humans led astray by an evil government than as corrupt at the core. So in TTRL it is refreshing to find the focus more on understanding the pain and futility of war than on glorifying the winner or demonizing the loser. Note, I am not trying to say the Axis powers were good in any way, just that war movies have traditionally not spent much effort developing the human aspect of the bad guys. In this regard TTRL does a remarkable job keeping the politics and grand strategy elements out of the picture and really narrowing in on individuals. As a result, we actually probably get a better commentary on war as a general phenommenon than we otherwise would.

In summary: SPR is great as a war movie about the chaos and general unfairness in war. It has superb effects and enough action to satisfy those easily bored. In contrast, TTRL is a great movie about the human aspect of war. It also has great cinematography but acts more as a commentary on the contrast between war and peace than as an action movie. Both films are awesome and well worth the time.

[tdarko]

ooinsight,

This is an exceptional post, a post that touches on many reasons why I chose these two particular films.

respectfully,

~td

[BarronVangorToth]

OOinsight, great post like someone said above -- out of curiousity, though, you pulled that from some essay you wrote recently, no?

[ooinsight]

[ QUOTE ]
OOinsight, great post like someone said above -- out of curiousity, though, you pulled that from some essay you wrote recently, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually no. A long time ago I watached The Thin Red Line critically for a media class on contrasting imagery but never compared with SPR or looked at it in this context. I hope we have more of these side-by-sides, got my brain working

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]


Actually no. A long time ago I watached The Thin Red Line critically for a media class on contrasting imagery but never compared with SPR or looked at it in this context. I hope we have more of these side-by-sides, got my brain working

[/ QUOTE ]


Fair enough, and kudos I guess, as that was quite a well thought-out post, hence my question. (Not that it would diminish your point if you cut-and-pasted, but it would at least make the world make a little more sense than that just flying out of your fingers for a random post in a random thread.)

[Rev Sauerbalz]

[ QUOTE ]
These are interesting choices for comparison for several reasons. First, they focus on different theatres of the war. Second, both are on some level more about the characters than the events. Third, in the case of The Thin Red Line, the film steps well outside the boundaries of stereotypical war movies.

I think the first point is worth noting because there have been relatively few WWII movies about the Pacific theatre (the war with Japan in general). Sure there have been movies about Pearl Harbor but that is pretty much the boundary. In this sense I actually liked TTRL more than SPR. Granted, SPR is a great film with what are considered some of the most realistic combat scenes ever filmed, but it is does not stray too far from the beaten path on WWII movies about the European theatre. I will explain my thinking here more later.

My second point I think is pretty clear cut. Both films spend a lot of time on character development. We are meant to relate to the characters. In SPR this manifests as a series of characters that we (for those in America) could easily imagine running into a daily life, but in a setting so alien they become hardened (or weak and worthless) by the shocking events they are exposed to. In TTRL we are meant to understand why the characters behave the way they do. The heroes are flawed and complicated, rather than simply being shallow and heroic stereotypes of 'the good guys.'

I think the final point applies much more to TTRL than SPR. For SPR, the step outside the traditional stereotypes found in movies about war are still very present. The good guys are the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys. When the captured German is set free what does he do? He does exactly what we would expect, allowing us to accept that the line seperating the good from the bad is constant and real.

This is exactly where The Thin Red Line stands out as exceptional. When I first saw this movie in theatres I was bored to tears. It wasn't until several years later, after watching it again, that I came to appreciate it. TTRL does not make a clear distinction between good and bad so much as between war and peace. From the early scenes on the serene African coastal village we can see the pain and confusion caused by war. The Japanese soldiers are not demonized, but rather portrayed as human beings with the same fears and hopes as the American soldiers. Traditionally, war films focussing on the Pacific theatre have portrayed the Japanese as savage and sub-human, a clear departure from the portrayal of the German enemy in WWII films. The Germans are portrayed more as humans led astray by an evil government than as corrupt at the core. So in TTRL it is refreshing to find the focus more on understanding the pain and futility of war than on glorifying the winner or demonizing the loser. Note, I am not trying to say the Axis powers were good in any way, just that war movies have traditionally not spent much effort developing the human aspect of the bad guys. In this regard TTRL does a remarkable job keeping the politics and grand strategy elements out of the picture and really narrowing in on individuals. As a result, we actually probably get a better commentary on war as a general phenommenon than we otherwise would.

In summary: SPR is great as a war movie about the chaos and general unfairness in war. It has superb effects and enough action to satisfy those easily bored. In contrast, TTRL is a great movie about the human aspect of war. It also has great cinematography but acts more as a commentary on the contrast between war and peace than as an action movie. Both films are awesome and well worth the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post--agree completely.

[diebitter]

Hell it's a tight order, but I'm gonna try. I'll try and persuade the wife to watch SPR tonight, and I'll go get TRL and watch that tomorrow.

The odds are against me, all. Two war movies in two nights on the family TV...

[CharlieDontSurf]

Marti Scorcese ranked TTRL as the 2nd best film of the 1990's.