I can read hands! (lc)

[ChipStorm]

Completely pedestrian for you good players, but to the up-and-coming ABCers I think this is worth telling...

This is from a post Isura made in Baluga's Pooh-Bah post on good LAG play:

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The reason that people want to learn LAG is because they aren't very profitable playing TAG. They aren't very profitable as TAG because they can't read hands well enough yet....

[/ QUOTE ]
I've always been an ABC full-ring player, i.e., Reads? What reads? From Isura's note, I'm "not very profitable as TAG" because I haven't made the effort to read hands.

But I've spent the last week trying to learn 6max. And at 6max, if you don't watch your opponents, you get chewed up. And I've spent a week getting chewed up: 3.6k hands, -5.6PTBB/100.

So I'm trying to learn to watch and take notes and buddy list (for the first time ever!), and last night the bolt of lightning struck. A villain in EP rivered a flush against my two pair, and when he showed down, he had limped 74s.

And for the first time ever, instead of thinking, "damn, rivered, oh well", I thought, "holy ****, I can KILL this guy long term, he limps suited trash from early seats! Wahoo!" And then I made a specific note on him, and thought about HOW I would kill him, and I buddy-listed him.

Now if you can read hands, you've already traveled this road. But if you're still getting down a solid ABC game of tight preflop, c-betting, learning to fold big pairs, etc., you may not have put the effort into reads. And I sympathize; it's hard enough just to assess the basic poker situation, and make a valid decision, let alone take opponent tendencies into account.

And hand reading does take effort, and a major thinking shift at the table. You have to just believe in your ABC game and almost forget it, and focus on watching people and what they do, with a mind to record that information, and with faith that it has value and you'll see these players again and you'll use that information against them. I can't overemphasize the mental shift that's involved. It's a leap.

But last night I felt like I opened a damn treasure chest.

[Ra_]

couple of questions.
What stakes are you playing at?
whats your V$ip/pfr at 6 max?
do your V$ip/pfr think it will change now that you plan to play more dynamic?

[4_2_it]

Very nice post. This kind of stuff cannot be repeated here often enough IMO.

[subzero]

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Very nice post. This kind of stuff cannot be repeated here often enough IMO.

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I agree. Should be standard, but it's often overlooked/underrated. Stuff like:

- pay attention (whether you're in the hand or not)
- take notes (what cards are they playing, how are they playing them, etc.)
- initially put players on a wide range of hands, then narrow down as you get more information
- know the opponents you're playing against

I love when you make a great fold and your opponent shows the exact hand that you put him on. Nobody can make perfect reads ever time, but the better you are at making reads, the more information you'll have when making decisions.

[twang]

I like your post, but where's the hand reading part?

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
I like your post, but where's the hand reading part?

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I realized after I posted that someone was going to ask this. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

The hand reading part, which I didn't state, was that I put my villain on a potential flush draw during the hand. But I wasn't really sure; there were other possible hands he could be holding, many of which I beat -- I had Aces up, and he could have had a smaller two pair.

But he didn't, and my related afterthought was, I COULD have known. Had I known my man, I could have put him on the draw much more easily, punished him on the turn much more, layed the hand down on the river much more quickly.

I had a range on him before the hand. From here on out, I have reads.

[subzero]

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I like your post, but where's the hand reading part?

[/ QUOTE ]
Knowing your opponent is a part of hand-reading. OP picked up a read on this player (playing 74s EP, a draw OOP, calling incorrectly, etc.). The next time OP's in a hand with him, he'll be able to read villain's hand better (and hopefully make some money off of him).

[cambraceres]

I love having these revelations in all areas of life. It's certainly a time for a little celebration in the middle of your grinding. The idea that opened up to you is so important it's not funny though, congrats.

Cambraceres

[King Spew]

Nice post Chip.

What I found VERY profitable is to use PT much more when I'm NOT playing. I'll TAG it up on 3 or 4 $25 or $50 tables playing.... just solid ABC taking fewer chances. Every coupla thousand hands, I'll spend a few hours (sometimes more) reviewing frequent opponents.

No need to review the hit and run guys... you'll hardly ever see them. I usually make notes during the game like "buys in short" or "uberLAG hit and run" And when history repeats with these guys... and it ALWAYS does, I'll write "again" (I have shorty that has 5 'agains' after the original note). Simple real-time game notes like these are quick and very helpful because as in the case with the uberLAG, your GameTime+ won't have enuf hands for you to really get a feel for this opp. If you see 45 hands and three "agains" it sure gives me a heads up on how he plays.

During my extensive review session, the notes I take are notated with "PT" to tell me that this note wasn't written at game time.

Do I get paid for this "extra" work???? You bet!