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#1
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NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
Villain is 21.2/16.7/1.4 after 156 hands. He raises anytime it folds around to him in the SB and I have been outplaying him on several flops with garb and made a few hands in this spot, hence the playing of the 10 8.
Do you ever fold here? Did I play it incorrectly? Thoughts? Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter) Villain (SB): $50.20 Hero (BB): $56.95 UTG: $9.20 BTN: $23.65 Preflop: Hero is dealt (4 Players) 2 folds, <font color="red">Villain raises to $0.75</font>, Hero calls $0.50 Flop: ($1.50) (2 Players) <font color="red">Villain bets $1.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.00</font>, Villain calls $1.00 Turn: ($5.50) (2 Players) Villain checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.00</font>, Villain calls $3.00 River: ($11.50) (2 Players) <font color="red">Villain bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 Pot Size: $26.50 ($1.30 Rake) |
#2
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
What are you doing? Why di you minraise the flop? Why did you bet so little on the turn? Why did you just call the river? What's going on?
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#3
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
I think the answer to all of those questions is I didn't want to push him out of the hand (looking at it objectively, I should have been betting harder ldo). I just called the river because when he made that bet I could think of only two logical hands for him to have: KJ or Q10. I put him on the Q10 though.
I was very close to folding the river, which I guess is my main question. Can you ever fold this? However, I had forgotten my betting on this hand. If you had to play it out, what would your bet sizes be? Say $4 on flop, pot on turn? Is that too much? |
#4
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
Why call the raise with T8o if you'r considering folding the second nuts? Do you only get your stack in when you flop TTT?
Don't minraise the flop, you know that. People at NL25 are gonna call all day anyway, so raise flop properly to $3.5 or $4. I'm betting 4.50 on the turn to: A) build a pot b) price out draws Get it in on the river, you have a terrible case of "monsters under the bed" syndrome if you are putting him on exactly one hand, the nuts. |
#5
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
[ QUOTE ]
Why call the raise with T8o if you'r considering folding the second nuts? Do you only get your stack in when you flop TTT? Don't minraise the flop, you know that. People at NL25 are gonna call all day anyway, so raise flop properly to $3.5 or $4. I'm betting 4.50 on the turn to: A) build a pot b) price out draws Get it in on the river, you have a terrible case of "monsters under the bed" syndrome if you are putting him on exactly one hand, the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Villain bets $7.50 bknollenberg has 15 seconds left to act bknollenberg: omgwtfbbq this may be way too sick bknollenberg calls $7.50 *** SHOW DOWN *** Villain shows [Tc Qs] a straight, King high bknollenberg mucks Villain wins the pot ($25.20) with a straight, King high bknollenberg: jfc *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $26.50 | Rake $1.30 Board: [7d 9s Js 6c Kc] Seat 1: Villain (small blind) showed [Tc Qs] and won ($25.20) with a straight, King high Seat 2: bknollenberg (big blind) mucked [Td 8c] - a straight, Jack high |
#6
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
Blame yourself, you misplayed the hand
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#7
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why call the raise with T8o if you'r considering folding the second nuts? Do you only get your stack in when you flop TTT? Don't minraise the flop, you know that. People at NL25 are gonna call all day anyway, so raise flop properly to $3.5 or $4. I'm betting 4.50 on the turn to: A) build a pot b) price out draws Get it in on the river, you have a terrible case of "monsters under the bed" syndrome if you are putting him on exactly one hand, the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Villain bets $7.50 bknollenberg has 15 seconds left to act bknollenberg: omgwtfbbq this may be way too sick bknollenberg calls $7.50 *** SHOW DOWN *** Villain shows [Tc Qs] a straight, King high bknollenberg mucks Villain wins the pot ($25.20) with a straight, King high bknollenberg: jfc *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $26.50 | Rake $1.30 Board: [7d 9s Js 6c Kc] Seat 1: Villain (small blind) showed [Tc Qs] and won ($25.20) with a straight, King high Seat 2: bknollenberg (big blind) mucked [Td 8c] - a straight, Jack high [/ QUOTE ] You might be the best hand-reader of all time dude. I agree, when villain bets into you on the river after that action, it is often the nuts, but there is no way you're folding that and this may not have happened if you played the hand differently. |
#8
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why call the raise with T8o if you'r considering folding the second nuts? Do you only get your stack in when you flop TTT? Don't minraise the flop, you know that. People at NL25 are gonna call all day anyway, so raise flop properly to $3.5 or $4. I'm betting 4.50 on the turn to: A) build a pot b) price out draws Get it in on the river, you have a terrible case of "monsters under the bed" syndrome if you are putting him on exactly one hand, the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Villain bets $7.50 bknollenberg has 15 seconds left to act bknollenberg: omgwtfbbq this may be way too sick bknollenberg calls $7.50 *** SHOW DOWN *** Villain shows [Tc Qs] a straight, King high bknollenberg mucks Villain wins the pot ($25.20) with a straight, King high bknollenberg: jfc *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $26.50 | Rake $1.30 Board: [7d 9s Js 6c Kc] Seat 1: Villain (small blind) showed [Tc Qs] and won ($25.20) with a straight, King high Seat 2: bknollenberg (big blind) mucked [Td 8c] - a straight, Jack high [/ QUOTE ] This is a terrible response to my post. Are you always this results oriented? |
#9
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
This looks exactly like a hand I tend to get myself involved in. I am glad you posted this, because it's something I need to improve on, and am glad I am not the only one in this situation.
In situations like this, I try to milk it, and then get frustrated when I lose on the river. |
#10
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Re: NL25: Flop nuts heads up, river makes second nuts.. fold ever?
The question here is not in whether or not you should call the river but in how you played the hand itself.
With 200xbb the call with position preflop is fine. However, your min raise on the flop is pointless; you are neither trapping nor extracting value. Raise an amount to not give your opponents odds to draw on your hand. I would prefer to raise it to 4 or 5 dollars on the flop. Then if he calls and checks the turn you bet the pot again. |
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