Exploding out of the blocks: 43s flop shove in a 4/180

FortunaMaximus · #1 06-20-2007, 03:44 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t3060)
Hero (t1480)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1260)
MP1 (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 raises to t60, MP2 calls t60, Hero calls t60, 2 folds, BB calls t40, UTG+1 calls t40.

Flop: (t310) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets t180, UTG+1 calls t180, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises to t1420, BB raises to t1440, UTG+1 folds.

No reads on BB, UTG+1 is a 100/0 callstation. Have seen 93o and 94o at showdown already.

I gots a flush draw. While I'd prefer a slightly more coordinated board with a few more outs, this is basically the bottom of what I was looking for when I called PF with 4 high. I like to take an extremely aggressive approach early on. This may or may not be pushing it too thin.

Interested in feedback.

bryan4967 · #2 06-20-2007, 04:00 PM

a little too thin i think, but close. i like to get aggressive early on in the 4/180s also. i would push with 6s5s especially with the hands you saw shown down already. but in this situation, i would find a better spot.

chiefbroady · #3 06-20-2007, 04:05 PM

seems to me like a pretty iffy push. BB has raised into pre raiser two cold callers showing some strength and easily couldve called with anything on the board including a couple draws. plus maybe im reading too much into the fact that its a 4 dollar tourney but your super calling station very well may be calling with a better draw than you have as it seems to me Q high flush draws look like nuts to many at this level . your bet push looks a lot like your draw too.

miami32 · #4 06-20-2007, 04:13 PM

Can you explain to me why you gamble so much so early. Now, granted I am mainly a STT player, but I do have excellent results so far in MTT. My approach early is to play tight. Granted I do come in with suited connecters in lp, but never as low as 43 suited, I just think it has little value. In general I would think playing 43 in the mannor you did is sort of FPS. Now, don't think I'm trying to bash you, cause I'm really not. I'm just trying to understand your reasons behind playing this so fast.

In general I think the 4.40s are so soft their would be no reason what so ever to make a play like this. I think you can find plenty of other spots to put your money all in being better then 1.89 to 1. Now there was a lot of money in the pot, but I would rather see a turn card for 180. That gives you more options. If he checks the turn you can attempt to take the pot away there or check behind trying to hit your flush. Shoving while giving you two ways to win, still seems bad considering its so early and really as far as I can tell if he does call the only way you can win is to hit your flush. I guess what I'm saying is if I'm going to make this play, I would rather at least have a bottom pair to go along with you flush draw to have at least two pair outs. I just can't see someone betting into this field at this low of a tournament folding to an all bet. I think chances of this play succeeding are slim and you don't want a call here.

Mingdu · #5 06-20-2007, 04:21 PM

I've done this when in a blind ... you have some fold equity with the shove. Hope you hit ... sweet image at the table if everyone is paying attention [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I would always fold this preflop in this spot, but to each his own

FortunaMaximus · #6 06-20-2007, 04:47 PM

Yeah. My shove wasn't subtle. And I didn't want my opponent to fold. (Yeah, it's usually a fold PF for me too, sometimes I do random things. Prolly 76s/87s better.)

Winning this pot, which I did... (Villain had QhJd, FWIW. 4h on turn goot) Gives me a lot of immediately useless chips which I can utilitize well, widening my range even further for the first hour and find myself in more big-pot situations than I would be ordinarily.

I'm working towards finding correct situations to do so and questioned this one. Yeah, got a couple raises shoved on later while holding premiums. That doesn't hurt either.

jgunnip · #7 06-20-2007, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In general I think the 4.40s are so soft their would be no reason what so ever to make a play like this

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

fold preflop fold flop spew spew spew.

dafrk3in · #8 06-20-2007, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In general I think the 4.40s are so soft their would be no reason what so ever to make a play like this

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

fold preflop fold flop spew spew spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

binions · #9 06-20-2007, 05:04 PM

670:180 on the call, or nearly exactly 4:1 which is fine for a flush draw to see the next card. Moreover, the turn could be checked, giving you nearly 4:1 on a 1.9:1 shot.

Pushing is high variance, and quite frankly smells like a flush draw. If you push and get called in 1 spot, you are putting in 40% of the chips. If your flush draw is live and he has no redraw, you have a 35% shot and don't need too much fold equity to make up for the 5% of the worst of it.

However, when you get called, it maybe a lot worse than 35% (if he has a set or bigger flush draw, etc). Overall, when called, I expect you probably have 28% equity (even though there is a chance you have 15 outs twice if they are on a straight draw). So this play is depending on quite a bit of fold equity to break even for the times you get called.

HojoMofo · #10 06-20-2007, 10:27 PM

There is no such thing as fold equity in a 4/180 so these types of moves values go way down. I might do this somewhere i've built up a certain image, but they call with everything at 4/180s. Call with the good pot odds, and stack them when they cant fold top pair.