TT at Kxx flop

JJack · #1 10-10-2007, 06:42 PM

$0.50/$1.00

No info , no stats about villain

SB ($49.00) (Hero)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP3 raises, 1 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 folds, MP3 raises, Button calls, Hero calls,

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( 6.5BB )
Hero checks, MP3 bets, 1 folds, Hero calls,

Should I fold flop (large pot) or call down with only one dangerowus overcards?
Is also chence that PFR try to steal pot with worst hand then mine.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( 7.5BB )
Hero checks, MP3 bets, 1 folds,

Here is probably standard fold woth 2 dangerowus cards and caped PF.

Final Pot: 8.0BB

slothinator · #2 10-10-2007, 06:46 PM

The only "reasonable" hand I can think of that you are beating on the turn is AJ; drop it on the turn.

bellatrix · #3 10-10-2007, 07:10 PM

Who's that last fold on the turn? Was that you? I thought you were heads-up.
I actually c/r the flop and take charge and fold to any sign of aggression by villain.

JJack · #4 10-10-2007, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who's that last fold on the turn? Was that you? I thought you were heads-up.
I actually c/r the flop and take charge and fold to any sign of aggression by villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

ye turn is HU

bozlax · #5 10-11-2007, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I actually c/r the flop and take charge and fold to any sign of aggression by villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you're going to c/r/f if he 3bets, c/r the flop and cold-fold the turn if he donks, and c/r the flop and b/f the turn when he c/r's you? Do you see why this might not be an optimal line? Being in charge is over-rated, dunno why so many women fixate on it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

bellatrix · #6 10-11-2007, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually c/r the flop and take charge and fold to any sign of aggression by villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you're going to c/r/f if he 3bets, c/r the flop and cold-fold the turn if he donks, and c/r the flop and b/f the turn when he c/r's you? Do you see why this might not be an optimal line? Being in charge is over-rated, dunno why so many women fixate on it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's my line, because most of the time I'm only paying 1SB for my aggression in a pot that's already 14SB large.

I know that I'm behind most hand ranges here, but does villain know this? I 3-bet, after all, he has to consider my hand ranges, too. Will he call down his QQ all the way here, how about JJ? And I have a BDFD, which might be good. And I still have the 22-1 on my T [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

BTW, this is flop play and that turn card sucks majorly. And I know my c/r is going to backfire most of the time, but I think 10% of the time it might work.

*Edit* I can't do math. I'm paying 1BB, of course. It's close now, but I still like it... Perhaps you're right. Mhmmm, gotta think a bit more what the folding equity is here.

bozlax · #7 10-11-2007, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, that's my line, because most of the time I'm only paying 1SB for my aggression in a pot that's already 14SB large.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean. I agree that most of the time you're paying (it's 2SB, btw), because you're a 7:4 dog to his range, but I don't understand how that makes raise > fold.

a) Those times that he does have KK+/AK, it's either going to be 3 bets you pay on the flop because you've just made the pot big enough to call his 3bet, or 4 bets because you bet prior to his raising your azz on the turn.

b) Just off the cuff, you have to assume that he'll fold QQ/JJ > 75% of the time because if he just calls you down that's 2 more bets you lose. (That's just a top-of-my-head number, but I think it makes the point because I don't think .5/1 Villans are folding pps in blind-battles > 50% of the time, regardless.)

Edit: Sorry, my earlier post talked about cold-folding the turn...you never have that option because you're OOP, so it's always going to be b/f.

Edit 2: Oopsie, if he calls down it costs you 4 bets...we're talking SB since we still on the flop.

bellatrix · #8 10-11-2007, 05:41 PM

Boz, I think you're right.
Somehow I was fixated on 1SB, it is of course 2SB. I thought anything over 10-1 would give me enough fold equity + my weak 2 outer + my weak BDFD to raise. But it's not 10-1, it's about 7-1. This might be ok on a shorthanded 5/10 6max table (where his hand range rises dramatically), but not at .5/1 where fold equity is so low.

Absolution · #9 10-10-2007, 07:54 PM

I haven't played full ring in a while, but I imagine you can dump this on the flop.

Landonfan · #10 10-10-2007, 08:54 PM

I peel the flop, since you'll almost always get payed off big if you hit your ten, but folding's ok. Turn is a fold obv.