rebuy tourney question?

[AaronL]

instead of taking a rebuy after busting out wouldn't it be better to just wait for another tourney and to start fresh? It doesn't make sense to me to add another rebuy when you are starting out behind everyone else and trying to play catch up... My strategy is rebuy at the start and take the add on on a end of the rebuy period but never rebuy if I bust out...

I also don't play tight, just so I don't bust... since I'm just going to play another tourney later or tommorrow... The only good motive I think of to rebuy is if you are playing in big rebuys and can't wait till tomorrow to restart a different tourney...

Is my thinking correct here?

[reecelights]

No. Double rebuy. Double up.

Edit to add: if you're going to play an online rebuy at all, you should be prepared to pay at least 5 buyins due the maniacal nature of these and the inevitable suckouts. If you are not willing to get it all in early in a rebuy, you should stick to freezeouts.

[AaronL]

I double rebuy (and add-on at the end of the tourney) and willing to get all in early in a rebuy... I just don't see the point of rebuying after I've already busted out when I can "rinse and repeat" in a another rebuy tourney where I'm at a chip disadvantage by starting over when others at my table have already doubled before me...

Basically my idea is gamble early and if I bust out wait for another rebuy tourney to start (instead of rebuying in the same tourney when my chips I'm rebuying are worth less because others have already doubled up)

[TwistedEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
I double rebuy (and add-on at the end of the tourney) and willing to get all in early in a rebuy... I just don't see the point of rebuying after I've already busted out when I can "rinse and repeat" in a another rebuy tourney where I'm at a chip disadvantage by starting over when others at my table have already doubled before me...

Basically my idea is gamble early and if I bust out wait for another rebuy tourney to start (instead of rebuying in the same tourney when my chips I'm rebuying are worth less because others have already doubled up)

[/ QUOTE ]

there aren't enough rebuys to play a new one everytime you bust. You also end up filling your table with chips and assuming you are better than your opponents you will have a decent chance to win them back post rebuy period. If you play like i do in rebuys, you'll also have a great table image that 90% of random donks don't realise that during rebuy play is totally different to post rebuy play and they will stack off to me with really bad hands because im 'terrible and play crazy' so they can't fold second pair etc

[flyingmoose]

If you wait for a new one you have to pay vig again.

[jtown1010]

great point, rebuys are a great way to play bigger prizepool tournies for a smaller rake. You should be willing to always go to the break with 5K no matter how many times you bust. The $5 & $10 rebuys can be a great training ground for the sunday million, they both have a mix of some very good players and lots of inexperianced players, and large chipstacks. Try the 10$ 1 rebuy 1 add-on if you only want to buy in once, you'll be at a disadvantage in a rebuy if you plan to leave after you bust each time.

[themobfather]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I double rebuy (and add-on at the end of the tourney) and willing to get all in early in a rebuy... I just don't see the point of rebuying after I've already busted out when I can "rinse and repeat" in a another rebuy tourney where I'm at a chip disadvantage by starting over when others at my table have already doubled before me...

Basically my idea is gamble early and if I bust out wait for another rebuy tourney to start (instead of rebuying in the same tourney when my chips I'm rebuying are worth less because others have already doubled up)

[/ QUOTE ]

there aren't enough rebuys to play a new one everytime you bust. You also end up filling your table with chips and assuming you are better than your opponents you will have a decent chance to win them back post rebuy period. If you play like i do in rebuys, you'll also have a great table image that 90% of random donks don't realise that during rebuy play is totally different to post rebuy play and they will stack off to me with really bad hands because im 'terrible and play crazy' so they can't fold second pair etc

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the point I was going to bring up. The majority of players are so bad playing deep stacks that its actually an advantage for you for them to have lots of chips. People who bust without rebuying add so much dead money to the prize pool and they are little to no factor in the tournament.

[Rocco]

[ QUOTE ]
I double rebuy (and add-on at the end of the tourney) and willing to get all in early in a rebuy... I just don't see the point of rebuying after I've already busted out when I can "rinse and repeat" in a another rebuy tourney where I'm at a chip disadvantage by starting over when others at my table have already doubled before me...

Basically my idea is gamble early and if I bust out wait for another rebuy tourney to start (instead of rebuying in the same tourney when my chips I'm rebuying are worth less because others have already doubled up)

[/ QUOTE ]

This strategy makes you one of the good reasons to why I play rebuys. You virtually have no chance of winning the tournament, and you're putting in dead money all those times you bust and are not willing to play beyond the first break. Stars rebuys lose about 25-30% of their field during the first hour, that's a lot of dead money. Don't be one of them... Even if you play tight, you'll experience more bad beats during the 1st hour because people (me included) happily call all-ins with sooooted hands or connectors.

And I really don't understand why being at a chip disadvantage during the rebuy hour would be that bad?

[omaha]

You have to read masons book

Basically, he mathematically PROVES that if you bust out, it is profitable for you to rebuy.

Ironically, the added ev you get, comes from others higher up than yourself!

Yes, you must budget for 5-7 buy ins

I stopped playing them, for the simple reason that I knew it was + ev to keep rebuying, but at a certain blind level, you must be pushing crud. Bust out, buy in, push crud, bust out. Quite an expensive habit!

The problem is really this.

Even though it is +ev to rebuy, it is a very HIGH VARIANCE play. WHich means that you will prolly go broke again and again when you rebuy, and once in a while you recover, and get paid off.

[AaronL]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to read masons book

Basically, he mathematically PROVES that if you bust out, it is profitable for you to rebuy.

Ironically, the added ev you get, comes from others higher up than yourself!

Yes, you must budget for 5-7 buy ins

I stopped playing them, for the simple reason that I knew it was + ev to keep rebuying, but at a certain blind level, you must be pushing crud. Bust out, buy in, push crud, bust out. Quite an expensive habit!

The problem is really this.

Even though it is +ev to rebuy, it is a very HIGH VARIANCE play. Which means that you will probably go broke again and again when you rebuy, and once in a while you recover, and get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually read Mason's book (although it was several years ago) and realize that it is +EV to rebuy since each individual chip is "worth more" if you have a small stake then if you have a big stake... (I hope I'm paraphrasing that correctly) My point was that if you rebuy in the same tourney after busting out your are getting LESS EV then if you were to start in a fresh rebuy tourney (with a double add on to start)... I think Mason's point of view wasn't written with online tourneys in mind (where you can find several low buy in rebuy tourneys many times a day... or even with the bigger ones, such as the 100 rebuy on stars, you could just wait till the next day to start a new one)...

I also understand the fact that its worth while to gamble early and I'm totally willing to do this... Again, my point is not that it isn't +EV to rebuy but that you will be getting more EV if you wait for the next rebuy tourney to start since you will getting more chip equality if it is a new tourney...

(Say there is 100 people with x chips and everyone rebuys at the start if you are the fist to bust out you now have 2x chips with 202x chips in play... if you wait till the next tourney to start you get to start again with 2x chips with 200x chips in play...) Obviously the later you wait to rebuy the less and less your 2x chips are going "to be worth"...

[ QUOTE ]
there aren't enough rebuys to play a new one every time you bust. You also end up filling your table with chips and assuming you are better than your opponents you will have a decent chance to win them back post rebuy period. If you play like i do in rebuys, you'll also have a great table image that 90% of random donks don't realise that during rebuy play is totally different to post rebuy play and they will stack off to me with really bad hands because im 'terrible and play crazy' so they can't fold second pair etc

[/ QUOTE ]

This also makes alot of sense to me but again would you prefer to have this image when you already have all the chips or when you're trying to play catch up... If you can't wait for another tourney to start (if, for example, you are playing at high enough stakes and aren't willing to wait a while for the next rebuy tourney to start) then it would make sense to me to jump in again with another rebuy, since it is +EV... but if you can wait till the next tourney then I think it is clear that you get more EV for money then if you rebuy after already busting out...

[ QUOTE ]
If you wait for a new one you have to pay vig again.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also true but if you double rebuy at the start and add on at the end in my case the rake is going to be (if you are playing a 10+1 rebuy for example) 3.2% (.1/3.1) of your buyin... if you add an additional double rebuy it is 1.96%... Rake (compared to nonrebuys) is pretty insignificant in either case...