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#1
12-18-2006, 02:49 AM
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suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
I have done a small amount of datamining of the PLO games at Pokerstars over the past couple of months. I have collected a sample of about 130k hands at levels from 1-2 to 10-20. In addition to finding the shortstackers to be a nuisance, I find the data I've collected about them to be somewhat suspicious. (I've included the basic data for the four of them with the most hands in my database below). First, they all play all of the levels, while very few non-shortstackers play more than a few levels regularly. In fact, they are the only ones in my database to do so. Second, they have incredibly similar statistics. I've listed the VPIP and PFR for each below, and other stats are equally similar. Third, over this period they have tended to play a very similar amount of time. (If I sort the summary page by "Hands Played", all of the short-stackers are together in a clump).
Now I know one reason that these statistics may be so similar is that they may all be following the same "system" -- e.g. from Rolf's book. But I don't know -- there are a number of other people who tend to play short-stacks who show considerably more variety among their levels played, hands played, and basic statistics. I don't have a specific accusation, but I am concerned about the possibility that this is a team of accounts for a single player or group of players, and/or that one or more people are using the same short-stacking bot program (which would not be very hard to make at all). It is quite possible that there are just a bunch of people out there who play all the levels a similar amount of time using exactly the same short-stacking system, but I thought I had enough to go on to raise my suspicions to you guys and see what you think. evaFunk: levels played: $2, $4, $6, $10, $20 hands played: 9383 hours: 175.68 vpip: 17.18 PFR: 7.84 joelmick: levels played: $2, $4, $6, $10, $20 hands played: 9345 hours: 176.15 vpip: 16.99 PFR: 8.2 superboydan: levels played: $2, $4, $6, $10, $20 hands played: 9250 hours: 179.57 vpip: 16.71 PFR: 8.35 cocblackcat: levels played: $2, $4, $6, $10, $20 hands played: 8098 hours: 156.05 vpip: 16.61 PFR: 8.08 
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#2
12-18-2006, 03:01 AM
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Re: suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
Seems pretty suspicious. I know I have played with coco before (probably 12-18 months ago) when he was playing full stacks at $100 and $200 and I have seen him type in French in the chat.
I would suggest compiling all the data you have into some kind of detailed report and submitting it to Poker Stars support.
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#5
12-18-2006, 07:32 AM
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Re: suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
Some of those guys play levels all the way down to .25-.50 but they usually buy in full there.
Hard to say that any I've played against were a bot though since they seemed to play me different than others. I think it's more likely that they all read that system rather than any bot though but I can't offer any evidence either way. I thought I was really the only one to play a spread of limits from 5/10 to .25/.50 but I almost always bought in full regardless of the game I was playing.
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#8
12-20-2006, 12:25 PM
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Re: suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
[ QUOTE ]
I've been personally convinced that at least one or two of these guys has to be a bot for quite some time. Interesting stuff, Pete. [/ QUOTE ] There are two that I think this of as well. I started to play a lot of the start-up table on stars (3-6 people on a full ring table) and two of these guys seemed to join and sit and the exact same time.
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#9
12-20-2006, 12:38 PM
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Re: suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
and yes... holy [censored] joel micks avatar tilts me
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#10
12-18-2006, 03:38 AM
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Re: suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data
Funny you post this, as I was just thinking the same thing.
Don't forget to add "suckoutter" to the list. I completely agree that those stats are awfully similar to be a coincidence. sure people follow Rolf's guidelines, but he does NOT give detailed enough guidelines for both hands to play (VPIP) and preflop raising (PFR) standards for their numbers to be that consistent. They are also from very different cities/countries so its unlikely that they are just a group of friends that have shared thoughts on how to play. I also think its weird that someone will play in a $10-20 and $5-10 game yet be unwilling to buyin for more than the minimum in a $1-2 game. the other interesting thing is that several of them will arrive at the tables at exactly the same time. I'd ask Stars to look at time/in time/out logs. None of them will play shorthanded. And i've never seen any of them type in the chat. -g
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