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#1
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SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
I'm going to tempt Andy's ban stick by posting more than one hand in a thread.
I really have no clue when I could/should be betting for value on the river in these hands or if it's safer to check behind or even how close of a decision it is. I'm sure because it's 3-handed it makes betting clearer. What if we started full ring? HORSE - Razz ($0.50/$1), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.15 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.60 SB) Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds 4th Street - (4.90 SB) Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls 5th Street - (3.45 BB) Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls 6th Street - (5.45 BB) Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls River - (7.45 BB) Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks Total pot: (7.45 BB - $7.45) HAND 2 HORSE - Razz ($0.50/$1), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.15 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.60 SB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (2.60 SB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls 5th Street - (2.30 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls 6th Street - (4.30 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls River - (6.30 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks Total pot: (6.30 BB - $6.30) |
#2
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
The only things I ban for are screen-shots using a four-color deck and anything mentioning "light" beer.
I think these are OK spots to check the river, shorthanded or otherwise. On the first hand in particular, the other guy ought to be drawing to a big hand. |
#3
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
hand one is 100 check with 78 full ring for sure...short handed depends slightly on the other door folded. he'll prob pay off a bet with his 9 since hes in a call down position, however i dont feel very comfortable here. i like your check.
2nd hand its bet full and shorthanded. hes drawing much thinner,and is in call down mode with a 9 |
#4
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
Both of these are easy, easy value bets at this level, regardless of full or short.
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#5
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
oh yeah, missed that detail! .50/1 value value value...by 2/4 i think i revert back to my op.
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#6
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
First hand check, you have a fully defined hand and will only get called by hands that beat 87. Second hand I value bet. You get calls from ppl with 9 high because to call on 5th street he had to believe that you had paired.
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#7
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
I think hand number 1 is a definite check behind - you're only getting action if you're beat.
Hand number 2 is a good spot to value bet. You're likely to get called by a much wider range of hands there. |
#8
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
Well I'm perhaps even more confused now than before I posted the hands. The concensus seems to be to check the first hand and bet the second. Both hands seem almost identical to me, so maybe I'm just retarded.
On 4th street I have a 4-card 8 against presumably a good 3-card low with a brick. 5th we both catch good. 6th I catch paint and him a 9. River I pair up. So what specifically makes the second hand a bet? Is it because 6s are no good to him? If he catches a 7 on 5th instead of the 8, does that make the river a check? |
#9
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
[ QUOTE ]
Well I'm perhaps even more confused now than before I posted the hands. The concensus seems to be to check the first hand and bet the second. Both hands seem almost identical to me, so maybe I'm just retarded. On 4th street I have a 4-card 8 against presumably a good 3-card low with a brick. 5th we both catch good. 6th I catch paint and him a 9. River I pair up. So what specifically makes the second hand a bet? Is it because 6s are no good to him? If he catches a 7 on 5th instead of the 8, does that make the river a check? [/ QUOTE ] Think about what your hand looks like to your opponent. The hiddenness of your eight in the first hand is huge. |
#10
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Re: SH Razz, when should I bet the river?
OK, I have more time now, so it's time for a basic third-level tactics in Razz lesson. This is thinking too far ahead for most .5/1 games, but once you get to 2/4 or so you'll need to have it down.
On the river, you should check when you have exactly what your board and your betting represent, or something slightly worse. You have one example of each here: in Hand 2, you're representing an 86, and you have an 86. In Hand 1, you're representing a seven, and you have an 87. In both cases, the only reason for someone to call with a substantially worse hand (a nine) is if they think you have a pair, and they'll never fold a better hand. When you have a better hand than your board represents (three babies down) or a much worse hand (a hidden pair), you should bet. In the first case you're looking for value from hands which can beat your board but not your hand, and in the second case you're looking to bluff out hands that beat your hand but not your board. Later on this strategy becomes too readable and you need to mix it up more, but this should work well for beating most low-limit games. |
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