Protestants Opinion Of Mormons Makes My Point Clearest

David Sklansky · #1 08-17-2007, 05:26 AM

In another thread I agree that it might be plausible that God will punish atheists because he thinks their atheism is merely an excuse to defy him. In other words no atheist legitimitely disbelieves. There are ulterior motives involved. I think that is Not Ready's stance.

I go on to claim that the above does not apply to monotheists who believe in a personal God. When they disagree with, lets say Protestants, it is not due to ulterior motives but simply excusable confusion. But Protestants like Not Ready, if I understand him correctly, don't accept that claim. A slight amount of confusion is legitimate and thus excusable. Eg Catholics. But anything more isn't. Because it is again not simply confusion and ignorance but also ulterior motives.

Jews stick to their religion in the face of obvious evidence it is wrong, because they don't want to make the sacrifices Christianity demands of them. Ditto Muslims. But what about Mormons? Obviously the founders of that religion may have had ulterior motives to stray from Protestanism. And the original practitioners had a BIG possible ulterior motive. But what about now? Why don't Protestants believe the man in the street Mormon won't go to heaven if he sticks to his religion? Do they still think that it is ulterior motives that keeps these people believing in something nonsensical, or do they admit that they genuinely believe these admittedly nutty details? And if they are genuine beliefs without ulterior motives, how can Protestants think that their God/Jesus, both whom Mormon's worship and generally obey, will give them the ultimate punishment?

yukoncpa · #2 08-17-2007, 05:49 AM

I can first hand say that it is unequivocally without ulterior motives that these people believe in the divinity and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and that Mormons genuinely believe in all the nutty details ( indeed they are absolutely convinced of the details ), of their religion, which recognizes Jesus as the God and creator of this world, the God that sacrificed himself for the salvation of all mankind and resurrected on the third day. The very God, who not only taught the everlasting gospel in the old world, but also taught the gospel on the American continent.

bluesbassman · #3 08-17-2007, 09:00 AM

You keep trying to point out through a logical chain of reasoning that the God in which many Christians profess to believe must be manifestly unjust. Expect more silence, evasion, or at best, rationalization.

If cornered, the believer will simply say his God is "somehow" just in some way we cannot really comprehend. So if Mormons are condemned to hell, it's because by definition they genuinely deserve it.

Dean_Letham · #4 08-17-2007, 09:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You keep trying to point out through a logical chain of reasoning that the God in which many Christians profess to believe must be manifestly unjust. Expect more silence, evasion, or at best, rationalization.

If cornered, the believer will simply say his God is "somehow" just in some way we cannot really comprehend. so if mormons are condemned to hell, it's because by definition they genuinely deserve it .

[/ QUOTE ]

What a silly statement to make.

bluesbassman · #5 08-17-2007, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You keep trying to point out through a logical chain of reasoning that the God in which many Christians profess to believe must be manifestly unjust. Expect more silence, evasion, or at best, rationalization.

If cornered, the believer will simply say his God is "somehow" just in some way we cannot really comprehend. so if mormons are condemned to hell, it's because by definition they genuinely deserve it .

[/ QUOTE ]

What a silly statement to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that I agree that's a silly statement, right? Or are you saying my claim that it's something some Christians would say is silly?

Dean_Letham · #6 08-17-2007, 09:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
You keep trying to point out through a logical chain of reasoning that the God in which many Christians profess to believe must be manifestly unjust. Expect more silence, evasion, or at best, rationalization.

If cornered, the believer will simply say his God is "somehow" just in some way we cannot really comprehend. so if mormons are condemned to hell, it's because by definition they genuinely deserve it .

[/ QUOTE ]

What a silly statement to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that I agree that's a silly statement, right? Or are you saying my claim that it's something some Christians would say is silly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I know you agree it's a silly statement.

chezlaw · #7 08-17-2007, 09:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You keep trying to point out through a logical chain of reasoning that the God in which many Christians profess to believe must be manifestly unjust. Expect more silence, evasion, or at best, rationalization.

If cornered, the believer will simply say his God is "somehow" just in some way we cannot really comprehend. so if mormons are condemned to hell, it's because by definition they genuinely deserve it .

[/ QUOTE ]

What a silly statement to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know that I agree that's a silly statement, right? Or are you saying my claim that it's something some Christians would say is silly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I know you agree it's a silly statement.

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Some would go for the sillier statement that anything god does is good hence if they go to hell without deserving it then its good they go to hell without deserving it.

chez

Poker monkey · #8 08-17-2007, 11:07 AM

I don't get the obsession with Heaven and Hell. Sounds like this debate is occurring about 500 years too late. You don't actually believe these places are real, do you? If not, why is this an interesting question, other than to highlight how silly religious beliefs can be?

Lestat · #9 08-17-2007, 01:37 PM

<font color="blue"> In another thread I agree that it might be plausible that God will punish atheists because he thinks their atheism is merely an excuse to defy him. In other words no atheist legitimitely disbelieves. </font>

Why? Why would you agree with this? It's clearly untrue.

I think you concede far too many points to make another point. Even if that point might be stronger, it's not a good debating tactic. If you're going to give up that many points to make another one, it should be a lock. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a lock counter-point to a religious person.

David Sklansky · #10 08-17-2007, 07:09 PM

I throw a beautiful unhittable slider that nips the outside corner and Not Ready knows he doesn't have to even swing at it (and surely miss). Because he knows a bunch of atheists are going to insist on coming in to throw fastballs up the middle, which at the very least he will be able to foul off.