|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
First: Thank you very much for the blunt advice in my last thread.. I definitely played it bad, got lucky, sucked out for a net 10BB and learned some good lessons.
Now, I've been looking at the Stud Hi/Lo in S/S (a bit out dated since they didn't use qualifiers back when it was published, but seems to be good advice anyway). I was looking through it and the major points I got from it was 1) Always try to scoop, and 2) High hands are trash. Now.. why are there so many hands like this where I'm forced to fold to a Sucker? (I think I could have saved one bet on 6th.) Anyway... they are going to lose in the end, right? 7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.10 (converter) Seat 1: $9.15 Seat 2: $12.80 Seat 4: $5.10 Seat 5: $13.05 Hero: $9.95 Seat 7: $14.75 Seat 8: $5.80 3rd Street - (1.40 SB) Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Vil 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in Seat 5: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Vil 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls 4th Street - (3.00 SB) Vil 2: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls Seat 4: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___folds Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets Vil 8: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls 5th Street - (3.00 BB) Vil 2: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks Vil 8: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks 6th Street - (3.00 BB) Vil 2: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets Vil 8: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls River - (6.00 BB) Vil 2: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds Vil 8: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets Total pot: (8.00 BB) Results (in white):<font color="white"> Total pot $4 | Rake $0.15 Vil 2: [5h Qd Ac 4s 6h 2h Kd] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 6,5,4,2,A) Vil 8: [Th Ts Jh 6d 3d 3h Tc] (HI: a full house, Tens full of Threes) </font> P.S. As I wrote this topic, I started with 23-A, ended with 3's full of 2's on the river (23-A253-2)... lost to KK-KQ2K-Q in a nice multiway pot. Everyone else missed low. *sigh* |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
Why do people play 862,r in Stud/8?????
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
I really have to go get Ray Zee's book, don't I?
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
I'm not sure what I think of your bet on 4th. You probably don't have the best high hand, and you are a loooong way from the best low hand. Your board doesn't even look like a decent low draw so I'm not sure what you expect your opponents to think.
Why do you bet 6th and then fold on 7th? When the J catches an open pair you must think you're in trouble. Most of the high hands people play are: * random 3-flush hands * big 3 straights * pairs The first 2 categories are pretty unlikely given the action I think. You no longer have the possibility of making a low, not to mention that it looks like Vil 2 is already there, and your best improvement is to a full house, with all your sixes dead (you're drawing to 2 eights). I don't think you even want Ts and 6s, that's really no better than 8s and 6s. So there are exactly 2 cards you want to see on 7th. Actually it's amazing you didn't get raised by Vil 2 on 6th. Shocking really, I'd be pumping that sucker for all it's worth. I just checked the 3rd st action out again. Fold this as first to act. I might overlimp behind several players on 3rd but acting 1st before 2 aces sucks. (This goes so much easier if you don't show cards. Now I have to try to not look at them while puzzling out the hand) |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
Uh, yeah. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
It's a good book, and while I am not against lining Ray Zee's pockets, I should probably mention that it's available quite reasonably priced used.
A 1 or 2 hour session at .5/1 ought to cover it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
[ QUOTE ]
I really have to go get Ray Zee's book, don't I? [/ QUOTE ]I remember mostly getting confused by the book, myself. As a starter I think you're better off running hands against each other in twodimes.net to get a better sense of hand values, since you seem to be a little confused about it. It's entirely free, after all. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
You asked why people play high hands in stud 8/b. I agree that most high-hand type hands are not going to play well in this game. But, don't let that mislead you into thinking that ALL 3 card low hands are playable either. Because they're not.
The object (or, optimally) is to enter pots with 3 low cards that can BACK INTO a high hand, such as 234, 345, A23, A45, 567, or 3 suited cards. All those starting hands have good potential to make straights, A's up, or a flush. And, ALL those hands have very good scoop potential, and basically, that's really what you're looking to achieve. SCOOP! The 862 hand has virtually no high draw, and you're playing an 8 that also has a 6 in it. Which means, that, even if you managed to catch 3 perfect low cards (A34) you'd still wind up with an 86---low. And rarely will that hold up for 1/2 the pot in a multi-way pot with other low drawers. And, because this is also a stud game, you have to take the other upcards into consideration before entering a pot. In 8/b, when there's an Ace lurking (and in your case there were 2 Aces out), this should be an auto-fold because the likelihood of one of them raising on 3rd is just too high. And, if that happened, you would really have a hard time calling because, if they're raising on a low, you couldn't even beat what you see. Which, reminds me, if you're going to play a bad low hand, at least have an Ace in the hole (ie;86A); that way, if you hit an Ace, you'll give yourself a much better chance to earn on the hand. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
I had debated which hand to post this topic with. I had to fold in about 20 situations like that, and hadn't thought about the hands I was playing. He was playing Hi, I was playing Low... and got beat.
And I will check out twodimes.net for some random hands. Again, thanks for all the advice! Definitely priceless stuff here. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why do people play Hi hands in Stud 8/b???
Running hands on twodimes is invaluable; and at the same time it is well to remember that one's equity on third or fourth street can be very misleading. Sure you can have more than your share of equity in a relatively small pot, but it serves you well to consider how much it can cost you to recover that equity, especially if you catch bad on later streets.
If you find Ray Zee's book confusing, it will almost certainly profit you to contemplate -- perhaps even by running sims on twodimes -- what Ray's points are that confuse you. Remember also that Ray contributes occasionally to this forum, and you can ask him directly. |
|
|