What can a ISP do to stop you from playing online poker (long)

[Percula]

Well in the wake of the online bill to "ban" online poker passing the house this week, I have seen a lot posts from people saying things to the effect that there is nothing that can be done to really stop someone from playing online. I addressed this from a technical stand point in this thread 2p2 post But I wanted to make sure the information was out there, so everyone can be sure of what they are talking about.

First a little background. I have been a network engineer since the early days of the Internet. I have built and ran IPS's, datacenters and worked for several fortune 500 companies in this capasity. I currently work for a company that makes the best of breed IPS appliance and have worked for a major firewall manufacture.

I am not going to go into the bill (wording and implications of the bill) too much, other than to point out that part of the bill talks about "access to" gambaling servers.

Now a little technical background. The Internet is built on the TCP/IP protocol. Each resource on the Internet has an individual IP address, e.g. 4.2.2.2. Your PC has an IP address that is presented on the Internet as does any server on the Internet. Traffic is transfered in the form of packets of data. Each packet contains information for the funtion of TCP/IP, like the source and destination IP address, e.g. from your IP to PokerStars game server. All IP addresses on the Internet are registered; basically your IP along with basic information from your ISP indentifies you, to the point that if a court ordered your ISP to turn over their records they could see that you were assigned IP X.X.X.X on any given hour of any given day, i.e. you are trackable.

TCP/IP traffic can be encrypted, e.g. a VPN or secure traffic like to a poker site while playing online poker. However since TCP/IP has to establish a connection to the server, that inital information needs to be "in the clear" and then the encryption is setup between the client (your poker client) and the server (the gaming server at say PokerStars). This intial communication in the clear means that every application basically creates a finger print or signature if you will that is indentifiable.

In the history of the Internet there have been several things that have fallen into the "wrong, against the law" but often done catagory, e.g. sharing of copyrighted music and videos. There has been some push to stop this, mostly by the copyright holders. Things like peer to peer or P2P networks and applications (e.g. bit-torrent) have been developed to help avoid detection of trading of music, programs, etc. These networks/applications have been somewhat successful, however they are far from perfect and easily defeated by a semi-capable network engineer.

Also in the the same lines as the P2P networks proxy networks have been setup to avoid detection of avtivities on the Internet that might get one in trouble, e.g. surfing playboy at work. These too are easily defeatable by any half decent network eningeer.

All in all there is a on going war on the Internet with goverments, businesses and individuals and groups all fighting to stay one step ahead of the other. Some want to stop activities, others want to keep doing something. Bottom line there is literally billions of dallors spent every year in this war... This is big.

So lets say that the bill passes and gets signed into law and ISP's are ordered to stop access to gambaling servers. (let's not debate this here, that is not what this post is about).

So what if anything can they do to stop you from starting up PokerStars and playing poker for real money? A lot!

There is a technology called IPS or Intrusion Prevention System that is used to stop this type of traffic. A couple of years ago it would have been a firewall doing the working of stopping unwanted traffic, but frankly in this day a firewall is nothing more than a pourious screen to stop the big chucks, the IPS is todays answer to more and more advanced and sneeky attacks and attempts to do things that are not allowed. An IPS scans each and every packet that passes thru it. It is capable of spotting the signature of each application that is trying to pass traffic thru it and then based on rule sets either allow or disallow the traffic to pass. They are capable some truely incredible feats with incredible speeds.

IPS manufactors go to great measures to stay up or ahead of the Internet world. Some even go to the extent of paying people outside of their company to bring up new and interesting issues. There are VERY active on the Internet.

Some would suggest that something like a P2P network or a proxy network would end up being used to access poker sites. And I am 100% sure that if the bill passes and becomes law and IPS's are asked to block access, that they will and they will likely be of a much better quality than exists today.

Guess what, with a good IPS system on a network, I can stop, dead in its tracks, any P2P or proxy network in existance today. If someone comes out with an update or new program/network it is only going to buy a week or two before I have an update to the IPS to stop it assuming the IPS company didn't already know about it already have a filter for it. Someone will come up with something new, the IPS manufactures will counter it, something new will be done and defeated yet again. It is a on going war, punch for punch, blow for blow.

So what does all this mean?

Bottom line, the average player is not going to be willing or capable to mess with all the BS to get around a blockage. Those that do will only be staying one step ahead in a on going war. The player pool will dry up. The big MTT's (WPT and WSOP) will get smaller and the "fad will fade". This could spell the bust of the poker boom.

So now that you know that it is technically possible to prohibit you from playing online, get off your multi-tabling ass and make your voice heard. Call your senators, talk to your friends, school mates, co-workers, anyone that will listen, and get them to call their senator too.

[mrhat187]

Only thing I am curious about you say "billions" is spent on this war, well isn't the number around 70 million people gamble online? 23 million I think play poker.......so you have maybe an estimate of cost to stop everyone? I think the money point is the most important part, people will say "I think gambling should be banned" But if congress replies with "It is going to cost 4 billion a year to stop this industry we have to make cuts to (insert government program) or we have to tax (insert new tax)" the person may then think "hmmmm, never mind it doesn't bother me that much"

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing I am curious about you say "billions" is spent on this war, well isn't the number around 70 million people gamble online? 23 million I think play poker.......so you have maybe an estimate of cost to stop everyone? I think the money point is the most important part, people will say "I think gambling should be banned" But if congress replies with "It is going to cost 4 billion a year to stop this industry we have to make cuts to (insert government program) or we have to tax (insert new tax)" the person may then think "hmmmm, never mind it doesn't bother me that much"

[/ QUOTE ]

Billions are already spent each year on network and systems security by goverments, businesses and everyday people.

For an ISP to install a high quality IPS it is going to cost them a healthy 6 figures. To maintain and manage that IPS is going to cost them $100K+ per year.

I am very doubtful the goverment will provide any kind of compensation for IPS's. It would put a great burden on IPS's, one they are likely to fight tooth and nail.

[LesJ]

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The Internet is built on the TCP/IP protocol. blah blah blah blah blah

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe you come on here and post this crap like you know what you are talking about. The internet is made out of tubes!

[uphigh_downlow]

What??

How can IPS work against me if I decide to use a simple VPN based out of town, for all my internet activities.

My traffic while in the US is simply encryted, and cannot be decoded. How can you find a fingerprint in an encrypted packet.

Unless you invest bazillions of resources.

[Zele]

Yeah, is what you're talking about feasible (for the entire US's internet traffic) given an enforcement budget of no more than $10MM?

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, is what you're talking about feasible (for the entire US's internet traffic) given an enforcement budget of no more than $10MM?

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect that the financial burden would be placed on the ISP. There would be a big court battle, more money would be budgeted, etc, etc.

The goverment will argue that the ISP should already have this type of technology and that it should not be a great burden. The ISP's will argue that they don't have the technology (which for the most part is correct) and that it would cost them too much money to do without conpensation. The court will side with the ISP and the goverment will budget more money and so on and so on.

[mrhat187]

I would say that is very good news, someone said earlier a good IPS costs 100k+ correct? Per ISP or whatever, well I'm not going to try to count all the ISP's in the USA but say there is atleast 4,000?

Then my 4 billion estimate yearly budget would be pretty close, and I think thats a tough number for people to swallow. Would you want to be the representative or senator up for re-election and see "so and so had to raise this tax to stop online gambling, but the industry is larger than ever, is this someone you want spending your money?"

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
What??

How can IPS work against me if I decide to use a simple VPN based out of town, for all my internet activities.

My traffic while in the US is simply encryted, and cannot be decoded. How can you find a fingerprint in an encrypted packet.

Unless you invest bazillions of resources.

[/ QUOTE ]

A single person using a VPN would be successful. As you note the IPS is not going to be able to see the content of the encypted packets.

However just like the P2P and proxy networks, they become too popular for their own good. So for any kind of VPN method to work, there would have to be a wide spread use of it with more or less centralized VPN servers. They will become "well known" and once that happens, they become targets to "stop access to". And I can 100% block you from making a connection to a specific VPN server/network if I manage the IPS at your ISP.

Similarly people will think to use some kind of remote control software like RDP or VNC or Citrix to control a PC in another counrty.

Bottom line is that for any of that to be successful at any scale that leaves the current poker world anywhere near what it is now, is going to become well known and easily blocked as a result.

[mattnxtc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Internet is built on the TCP/IP protocol. blah blah blah blah blah

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe you come on here and post this crap like you know what you are talking about. The internet is made out of tubes!

[/ QUOTE ]

and if u stick a lottery ball down those tubes...u can clean the entire system out...duh