Table Selection - What to Look For?

[rkidwell]

Given the recent discussion in another post about the importance of table selection, I would like to know what characteristics you look for in a table at the micros level. Is high % to flop most important? Average pot size? Or is it more important to look for players that you have played against and have good reads and/or good PT stats on? What else am I missing? Since table selection seems more and more important, even at the micros, I want to make sure I'm getting off to the best start possible before I even sit down. Thanks.

[kerowo]

At Stars I look at vpip. Higher the better. It's not like the good ol days at Party where there were tables that were too loose to sit at. I'm very happy if I see something over 35%. I don't look at pot size.

[rkidwell]

[ QUOTE ]
At Stars I look at vpip. Higher the better. It's not like the good ol days at Party where there were tables that were too loose to sit at. I'm very happy if I see something over 35%. I don't look at pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

A follow-up question - is there any distinction as you go up in levels? I understand that % to flop will/should go down as the levels increase, but is % to flop, higher the better, the main thing to look for at any level?

[kerowo]

Someone who plays higher than .10/.20 and .25/.50 will need to speak to that, but I'm imagining that you would always pick a 30 vpip over a 20 vpip table.

[unterfish]

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Someone who plays higher than .10/.20 and .25/.50 will need to speak to that, but I'm imagining that you would always pick a 30 vpip over a 20 vpip table.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course!
Nothing changes above this limit.
A below 30% table isnt worth grinding at.

[bravos1]

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Someone who plays higher than .10/.20 and .25/.50 will need to speak to that, but I'm imagining that you would always pick a 30 vpip over a 20 vpip table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not always. Please keep in mind that a "great" table may not be so great. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

examples:

Table 1 - over all table VPIP is 35
open seat is 5
seat 3 : 19/11/2.5
seat 4 : 21/9/1.9
seat 6 : 62/26/3
seat 7 : 45/11/1
rest of the seats make it avg 35 VPIP

Table 2 - over all a 22 VPIP
open seat is again 5
seat 3 : 51/35/2
seat 4 : 46/11/1.5
seat 6 : 14/8/2.5
seat 7 : 11/7/1
rest of the seats make it a 22 VPIP

Which table is better for you to sit at? Why (there are several reasons)?

Table selection is no where near as important as seat selection.

[Gib]

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Table selection is no where near as important as seat selection.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seconded

[rkidwell]

[ QUOTE ]

Table 1 - over all table VPIP is 35
open seat is 5
seat 3 : 19/11/2.5
seat 4 : 21/9/1.9
seat 6 : 62/26/3
seat 7 : 45/11/1
rest of the seats make it avg 35 VPIP

Table 2 - over all a 22 VPIP
open seat is again 5
seat 3 : 51/35/2
seat 4 : 46/11/1.5
seat 6 : 14/8/2.5
seat 7 : 11/7/1
rest of the seats make it a 22 VPIP

Which table is better for you to sit at? Why (there are several reasons)?

Table selection is no where near as important as seat selection.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to take a stab at this. Table 2 is a better table to play at here even though the VPIP% is lower for the table as a whole. On Table 2, you will get to act after the 2 "loose" players most of the time, so when they limp a lot of hands, you can raise with your premium hands, resulting in the tighter players that act after you likely folding (or if not folding, allowing you to narrow their starting hands down a lot more precisely than a looser player's starting hands) and also resulting in the loose players likely calling your raise to the flop. On the post-flop rounds, your seat will allow you to act after these players most of the time, which should allow you to take advantage of your good hands. On the other hand, Table 1 has a higher VPIP, but given the PT numbers on the two "loose" villians, you are less certain how they will act after you. The two loose villians have a wider range to raise, 3-bet, etc. pre-flop and it may be harder to put them on a hand post-flop.

What did I screw up?

[ottsville]

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At Stars I look at vpip. Higher the better. It's not like the good ol days at Party where there were tables that were too loose to sit at. I'm very happy if I see something over 35%. I don't look at pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

A follow-up question - is there any distinction as you go up in levels? I understand that % to flop will/should go down as the levels increase, but is % to flop, higher the better, the main thing to look for at any level?

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember at pokerroom that the 3/6 tables were often significantly looser than the 1/2 tables. But, you will also encounter players who play better postflop.

Right now I mainly play stars... I look at "players to the flop," hands per hour, and pot size. If HPH is high(>90) and players to the flop is also high, the table has probably just started up and the lobby stats may not reflect the game as it fills up. However, since waiting lists at tables with VPIP's greater than 25% are often several players long and by the time you get on the table the fish are often gone, sitting at a new table is not so bad.

I think a more important thing to learn is to leave a table if it is bad or your seat is bad.

[Absolution]

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[ QUOTE ]
At Stars I look at vpip. Higher the better. It's not like the good ol days at Party where there were tables that were too loose to sit at. I'm very happy if I see something over 35%. I don't look at pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

A follow-up question - is there any distinction as you go up in levels? I understand that % to flop will/should go down as the levels increase, but is % to flop, higher the better, the main thing to look for at any level?

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember at pokerroom that the 3/6 tables were often significantly looser than the 1/2 tables. But, you will also encounter players who play better postflop.

Right now I mainly play stars... I look at "players to the flop," hands per hour, and pot size. If HPH is high(>90) and players to the flop is also high, the table has probably just started up and the lobby stats may not reflect the game as it fills up. However, since waiting lists at tables with VPIP's greater than 25% are often several players long and by the time you get on the table the fish are often gone, sitting at a new table is not so bad.

I think a more important thing to learn is to leave a table if it is bad or your seat is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I mostly play short handed, but start by looking at players to the flop and pot size on tables that I can jump in right away. I don't want to have to wait because the table dynamic will probably change by the time I sit down. That's true for most tables though. The stats usually only go a few hands back (I don't know how many for sure.) Often though, if a seat is open and the table has good stats, the action guy just left. I reevaluate when I sit down. I usually play a couple orbits and get a feel for the table. If it's folded to the button or blinds every hand I'll leave. I want the table to be multiway and passive, or even have a bunch of LAGs going too far. I also want position on the players making the most mistakes.