Simple question - open limping in pf with super calling station?

[JackAll]

I don't limp in ever.

But there was a guy on my table the other day who was vpip 90 and basically never folded pf or flop - ever. Then called turn with gutshot or bottum pair chasing 2pr, etc.

If we have sc's/ssc's/AXs/low pairs, is it worth open limping?
Obv we are basically not c-betting here ever, so this seems like a waste of money to raise pf since we can't even semi-bluff with draws.

If open limping is ok, then and if people limp behind you, I think position doesn't matter since we aren't able to semi bluffdraws. So open limping from even UTG seems fine.

Other than open limping, I think the other choice is folding it since raising and c-betting seems gay.

Thoughts?

[DrMagic]

You raise to isolate the fish. You limp in and you let other players have the chance at taking his money

[wuwei]

1. Who do you expect to play better after the flop, you or the 90% VP$IP guy?

If the answer is you, move on to question 2.

2. Would you rather play more small multiway pots or bigger HU pots with the 90% guy?

If the answer is bigger HU pots, keep raising.

Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[JackAll]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Who do you expect to play better after the flop, you or the 90% VP$IP guy?

If the answer is you, move on to question 2.

2. Would you rather play more small multiway pots or bigger HU pots with the 90% guy?

If the answer is bigger HU pots, keep raising.

Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is basically never folding. So say I raise pf with 67s and flop is any flush draw (not combo draw). He is never folding flop and seldom folding turn. So semi-bluffing betting flop or turn is spewing money and you hit 1/5 times on turn (or same on river if u miss turn). So there is zero value in betting here.

I don't think it's worth betting to build a pot here unless we are willing to get our whole stack in with 3-barelling.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't c-bet every hand... bet when you flop something. This isn't rocket science.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh. Raise to isolate and just give up when you miss. Also try using the turn cbet, those tend to work ok against these types of villians.

This also gives you a great image for the rest of the table who are paying attention, "omg this fish only bets when he has something I can totally outplay him."

[JackAll]

Ok, all your answers suck like a hooker trying to earn bread and water money.

You three are a bunch of tools. Really. TOOLS.

sc's/ssc's/AXs/low pairs all play well in a family pot. So raising to isolate is not a great idea unless you can make the fish fold and steal from him. With a guy like this villain who NEVER FOLDS and us hitting our hands so seldom - raising to isolate is rediculous.

I already explained that he doesn't just call a bit too much. I said he NEVER FOLDS pf, flop, and seldom on turn (calling with gutshots and bottum pair)



I'm still open to a good suggestions here.

Someone who learnt to use their brain please answer with something other than 'ooh someone once said to isolate anyone who is in the broad category of fish'. Others please shut up.


Edit: Sorry, getting fed up with tools and turned into a poo-flinging monkey.

[callme]

Raising to isolate is just not gonna work efficently in these spots since the other players catch up quite fast what you try to do and just call your raises (in hope to stack this guy) esp. when OOP. I would lower my PF raises significantly to really strong hands (the fish is gonna call anyway) and limp with other hands and if somebody else decides to raise, just check if you have the odds to call. Also try to figure out what kind of raises he calls PF or if he even calls reraises with his range. If you figured that out you simply can wait for big hands and raise huge if it hits you PF. If you get dealt SC´s/low PP which you want to play and not wanna raise, just limp them, i dont see much wrong with that since you can´t/wont achieve most of the goals of openraising anyways in this particular situation.

Further CBetting against such guys with non-solid hands is just a waste of money. Valuebet solid hands like TPTK++ and dont be afraid to put it all in with it, but just dont waste money without a hand.

[JooWish622]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, all your answers suck like a hooker trying to earn bread and water money.

You three are a bunch of tools. Really. F8CKING TOOLS.

sc's/ssc's/AXs/low pairs all play well in a family pot. So raising to isolate is not a great idea unless you can make the fish fold and steal from him. With a guy like this villain who NEVER FOLDS and us hitting our hands so seldom - raising to isolate is fkn rediculous.

I already explained that he doesn't just call a bit too much. I said he NEVER FOLDS pf, flop, and seldom on turn (calling with gutshots and bottum pair)



I'm still open to a good suggestions here.

Someone who learnt to use their brain please answer with something other than 'ooh someone once said to isolate anyone who is in the broad category of fish'. Others please shut the fk up.


Edit: Sorry, getting fed up with fking tools and turned into a poo-flinging monkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

HI Jack

I often debate this question with my friends and a few things to think about.

In the case that everyone at the table plays badly, I would limp. THis scenario is common in most 2-4 Games or below in which everyone seems to go broke with anything.

however, at tougher games, I would raise with tehse hands to isolate because A. even if it is a family pot, that relaly won't help you all too much because good players are less apt to go broke with mediocre hands and B. (which is a more important reason), if you don't raise, someone else will and then you may have to fold your hand later because of initiative reasons and C. mix up your range of raising hands

If there's only one fish, it doesnt really make sense to create a family pot with other good players with a hand that won't stand to be paid.