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#1
10-18-2007, 11:36 PM
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5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
10 Handed 5/10 Limit
I am in BB. SB is calling every hand preflop for whatever amount of bets, will often bet if he has anything and often calls flop and turn with nothing. On the river he will bet if he hits bottom pair or was checked to with any pair. PFR seems normal nothing great or horrible. Folded around to CO who raises. Folded to SB who as usual cold calls. I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB checks, I check, PFR checks. Turn comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB checks, I check, PFR checks. River comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB bets, you ? And for what reason. Regardless of your reasoning what you do you put CO on and what action do you want him to take in response to yours. 
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#2
10-18-2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River
... call because it's against my religion to fold when I have 2nd pair and the Ace checked through twice.
However, I'd put CO on a very wide range consisting of KQs all the way down to KQ. I want CO to be so excited turning over his hand that he flings his cards off the table and onto the floor, killing his hand, because that's the only way I can win
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#3
10-19-2007, 09:58 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River
[ QUOTE ]
However, I'd put CO on a very wide range consisting of KQs all the way down to KQ. [/ QUOTE ] lol sarcasm? the typical CO should have a lot more than that. If that's the entire range we are putting him on, our play is 100% to raise river.
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#4
10-19-2007, 12:04 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
I would call here and fold if the CO raises. You have to call as you likely have top pair with a loose and reasonably aggressive SB betting after checked flop and turn. I would not raise as the SB might have a Q, too and if so, almost certainly with a better kicker. Worse yet, a Q with better kicker would not be surprising for the CO. The CO who seems probably straightforward raised preflop but checked both turn and river, suggesting he does not have any A, nor KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99 as one would have thought he would have bet any of these before the river, and he didn't. Would he have raised 88, 77, 66, you haven't given us enough of a read, but most live low limit players wouldn't even when opening from the cutoff. That leaves KQ, JQ, and maybe JTs as possible raising hands, but for an average live player it would skew heavily toward KQ. So I'd be afraid of the CO raising you, but don't think you can fold to the SB bet. Raising the SB is probably spewing as it will get raised by better hands and worse hands will fold. Do I make sense?
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#6
10-19-2007, 01:32 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably folding this PF. [/ QUOTE ] I generally fold this in this kind of situation too, but don't the LHE guns say that any two suited is generally profitable from BB closing the action with a single open raiser, and a single caller? Or is that when the SB folds (giving us a half a small bet as dead money)? Anyway, here we aren't facing a genuine strong hand EP or MP raise, its a steal raise from LP, and a call from the calling station SB. Also, the description of SB's postflop play makes me want to get in there and play postflop with this. So I would call preflop. As for the river, I am call-folding. With the PF raise, I think the pot is big enough for us to be good often enough to beat these two guys. I guess we could raise to get C/O off a better queen given the pot size. I wonder if we could get him off KK. And on the face of it I guess C/O seems quite likely to hold a queen, but there are only two left in the deck, and I think he usually has something else. Just calling might get us an overcall from JJ or something worse I guess. Yeah, I definately think it's a weird play from C/O to not bet flop or turn given that he is not terrible. I'll never get the reasoning no matter what he holds. I put him on a PP.
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#7
10-19-2007, 08:21 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
[ QUOTE ]
I generally fold this in this kind of situation too, but don't the LHE guns say that any two suited is generally profitable from BB closing the action with a single open raiser, and a single caller? [/ QUOTE ] No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall. In fact, I would want more, rather than fewer, callers when playing speculative hands OOP. Furthermore, this starting hand is especially meh because you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair with your crappy kicker.
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#8
10-19-2007, 09:13 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
[ QUOTE ]
No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall. [/ QUOTE ] I don't claim to be good, and I don't know if or how profitable it is, but I call in this spot all the time. --Rico
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#9
10-19-2007, 10:29 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall. [/ QUOTE ] I don't claim to be good, and I don't know if or how profitable it is, but I call in this spot all the time. --Rico [/ QUOTE ] Keep in mind that the raiser opened from the CO, meaning that his range is somewhat narrower than if he was in the CO or Button.
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#10
10-19-2007, 10:04 AM
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Re: 5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River
[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, this starting hand is especially meh because you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair with your crappy kicker. [/ QUOTE ] ??????? When we hit a Q on the flop, we will OFTEN win, though it will not be easy to get good value out of the hand, and WHEN bets DO go in, we won't be in very good shape. However the MAIN prob with Q2s is that we really only have one card to hit. The deuce is worth very little to us. We won't with the Q very often, and when we do, it is far from a monster. "kicker trouble" is only a small part of why Q2s sucks.
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